Allegro 27, Lian

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  • 18 Nov 2017 15:28
    Reply # 5592583 on 4446721

    Hi,

    And thanks for bringing up good questions here regarding the new sailplan! To tell the truth I've been relying on different opinions on it and have no strong arguments if the sail should have 6 or 7 panels. The current prototype worked well actually, being rather balanced (well, just a little weather helm), with its 4,15m battens.

    The mast is 12m in total (200mm diameter in the base and 80mm in the top, with wall thickness of 5mm).

    I think SA of the new sail version is currently 37,2 m2, with batten length of 4,65m.

    For battens I am thinking of aluminium tubes 45 x 1,5 mm (or maybe 40 x 1,5mm would do fine?)


    Last modified: 18 Nov 2017 18:42 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Nov 2017 22:03
    Reply # 5591932 on 5582314
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    However, I see that David only uses six panels on his Weaverbird, so I may worry without reason. I don’t know if each batten has a downhaul on Weaverbird. What do you say, David?

    Arne

    Initially, I had a spanned downhaul to pull down the first two reefs, but now, I have a lower LHP as it will haul down the reefs and haul the luff aft at the same time. The weight of the battens makes a difference - mine are quite light. I don't know what Hard will end up with. The sail shape is the same, but the sail may not need to be hauled aft so much as on Weaverbird.
  • 17 Nov 2017 13:10
    Reply # 5590661 on 5582136
    Annie Hill wrote:

    Can you copy the photos into your profile album, Hard, for those of us who don't tdo Facebook.  I got a fleeting glimpse of the stern, but was then locked out.  All the others show the boat underway - she looks great - but I can't see the other shots.

    sprayhood replaced by a doghouse

    the windvane project 

    hinged junk-sail used summer 2017

    new sailplan for 2018

    Edit: maststep and partners added

    Last modified: 18 Nov 2017 11:52 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Nov 2017 10:57
    Reply # 5582314 on 4446721
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Hard,

    I see that you are reducing the number of panels from nine to six in the shown sailplan. I wonder if it is better to divide the area into seven or maybe even eight panels. My thinking behind it is that when I keep the ratio between the vertical batten distance, p, and the batten length, B, fairly low (mostly below 0.25), the luff of all the panels (except the lowest one) stays quite straight, without needing any downhauls. From your sailplan the AR appears to be around 2.4 and the p/B=0.35.

    In addition, I generally think it is false economy to reduce the number of battens, as the load on the battens and sail cloth goes up.

    However, I see that David only uses six panels on his Weaverbird, so I may worry without reason. I don’t know if each batten has a downhaul on Weaverbird. What do you say, David?

    Arne

    PS: Hard, may I ask how tall the mast is and what sail area you are planning for?


  • 12 Nov 2017 05:12
    Reply # 5582136 on 4446721

    Can you copy the photos into your profile album, Hard, for those of us who don't tdo Facebook.  I got a fleeting glimpse of the stern, but was then locked out.  All the others show the boat underway - she looks great - but I can't see the other shots.

  • 10 Nov 2017 11:11
    Reply # 5579897 on 4446721

    Quite some time has passed since my last update. Let’s fill that gap…

    Last winter while having a hard time getting good progress with the sail it was blessing for me to see Oscar Fröberg selling his junk-rigged Fingal27. The boat itself was in poor condition but it had several parts I could convert to my boat, the lead keel had its value and I was happy to be able to sail her from Loviisa (Finland) to my place in Tallinn (Estonia) to do the job. The 12m aluminium mast was exactly what I needed! The sail was kinda prototype made of the white tarp but it was well made, it had served Oscar for two seasons and I saw it could do more. Oscar still has the webpage up describing the boat and the sailmaking progress: link 

    As my own boat needed lots of TLC, fixing the gearbox, replacing all the cabling, replacing the sprayhood with a doghouse etc I made an expensive effort of transporting her to my backyard in the fall. In spring I was now able to complete all those jobs I had planned and by converting the rig from Oscars boat with rather a little effort it was an awesome opportunity for me to get sailing much faster!

    I’ve been posting my progress on Facebook page SV Lian 

    For the ones with no facebook account some direct links hereby, that should still be accessible 
    Replacing the old sprayhood was quite an exercise but I am very satisfied with the result: link 

    Partners also were cut out from the Fingal and got transferred: link 

    Some overall views of the awesome summer of 2017: link and link

    All photos combined here: link

    Windvane “Windy” got installed later in the summer. Not an easy exercise at all for the double-ender… I still wanted to be able to fold the tiller and have that extra range for rudder… It was a success also!

    Work in progress here: link 
    And the first trial that happened to take place in 12-15 m/s wind: link 

    The windvane was made by a friend of mine that has sailed around the world and had some time there to think about how the windvane should be made to work well and last forever. He is now making that attempt. Mine is the 4th or 5th working prototype and it’s getting there!

    That’s the 2017 in short:) Huge thanks to Robin Fröberg, who has been supporting me a lot with all kinds of advice and support!

    Here is the very last sailplan waiting for some minor final changes: link



    Last modified: 10 Nov 2017 15:08 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Feb 2017 09:12
    Reply # 4606361 on 4446721
    And here is a new version
    Sail area 37,3 sq. Length of the lower battens 4,5m.

    Any opinions?


  • 24 Jan 2017 18:05
    Reply # 4566289 on 4446721

    Thank you for all the arguments! It's a good challenge for me to understand how one or another difference may influence the actual experience at sea, but it sure makes me study more. Have been watching different videos/photos and reading some chapters again and again to follow you here:)

    I hope the conversation will continue! It's the same boat, possibly going offshore. Currently there are two strong sailplans with different yard angle, boom length, mast height and with different mast position. 
    Any other opinions, please?

  • 23 Jan 2017 23:59
    Reply # 4564865 on 4446721
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Well, I must disagree with you there, Robin. I don’t think a 70° yard angle needs to produce extra problems . On the last two boats, I have been a bit more generous with the mast length, than I was when rigging Johanna in 2002. This has given me freedom to move the slingpoint on the yard to a position which requires minimum trim forces on the Throat Hauling Parrel (THP) and the Yard Hauling Parrel (YHP).

    Frankly, when looking at the photos in article 1 and 2 about Frøken Sørensen, I think that sail looks quite good, good enough to me at least. The shape of Frøken Sørensen’s sail happens to be the same (AR=1.95) as the sailplan I have drawn for Hard’s Allegro 27, Lian.

    Arne


    Last modified: 24 Jan 2017 00:04 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 Jan 2017 16:36
    Reply # 4564136 on 4446721

    Having sailed abt 10000 M the last 4 years I have a few remarks on shaping of junk sails.

    I had a sail with a yard angle abt 60 deg and when I altered my sail increased it to abt 70 deg and I have mainly negative experience of this . Increasing the angle means that the distance between the gravity center of the sail and the "hanging" point grows and more power to right the sail up is required. this means crises, and whats even worse very much more chafing on sail and lines. My opinion is that one should try to move the weightpoint of the sail nearer to the hanging point, ie the halyard fixpoint. The Jester type sail is of course the extreme of this type.

    Robin



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