S/V Sea Witch. Polynesian outrigger Inspired Trimaran.

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  • 16 Mar 2017 21:14
    Reply # 4671997 on 4602302
    I truly understand where you are coming from and sympathise.  One suggestion is to source a local boat, eg a Wharram catamaran, that has been for sale for a while, with no-one showing any interest, and offer the guy a realistic price (as you see it) and a deal to pay in instalments.  Promise not to leave the country until it's paid off.  You can live on the boat while you sort it out and learn to sail as well. Daft idea?  Well, a friend of mine sold her boat that way and both parties have been perfectly happy with the deal.

    If you can't get decent plywood, building a boat is a waste of your resources, in my opinion.  You want it to see you out, after putting so much time and effort into it.  I'm sure you could find a second-hand boat in your country.  It may not be the ideal, but it's a boat and allows you to fulfil at least part of your dream. 

    Have you thought about crowd-funding?  Finding a job overseas?


  • 16 Mar 2017 21:02
    Reply # 4671979 on 4602302

    Hi Martin.

    I am building a nine meter catamaran in the East Rand.

     Have you checked the availability of good quality marine plywood  in South Africa.? Okoume  is no longer available. The Asian stuff is rubbish. Six millimeter is three ply only with very thing face veneer which makes the sheet not strong enough. Voids are problem too, at any thickness, as well as the glue starvation. The Douglas Fir also not to easy to get and expensive.  

    If I had to build the boat in South Africa again I would not do ply epoxy.

     Luckily I've got  okoume plywood enough for the all project two years back.    

  • 16 Mar 2017 13:05
    Reply # 4670623 on 4669644
    Martin Smith wrote:

    The rough estimate for main hull is $1600 for timber and ply. $500 resin $650 fiberglass cloth.

    That'd be no more than 20% of a finished boat ready for cruising. The plain blunt truth is that as things are today, it costs more to build a boat than to buy an old one. Look at this page, for example:

    http://www.multihulls.uk.com/index.php/wharramcatamarans

    Tiki 30 for 10,000 euros, Tiki 31 for 8,500 euros. You would be doing very well indeed if you could buy the materials to build one for that. 

  • 16 Mar 2017 07:36
    Reply # 4669644 on 4602302

    Thank you David T. I will mail local suppliers today and start getting prices for masts.

    The rough estimate for main hull is $1600 for timber and ply. $500 resin $650 fiberglass cloth.

    Build site is my sisters house. She has kindly agreed to let us rent a room in her house, and allowed us to use part of the yard for the build at no extra cost(no matter how long it takes). Down side is that her house is about 600km from the coast, so the boat needs to be transported to  the sea once it is completed. That is why our boat is designed to be taken apart and not exceed max beam of the road 2.4m (abnormal loads can be done but extremely costly).

    Karlis, Yes import tax is 45% here in South Africa for a boat (parts are cheaper but a whole working boat is 45%). And to register the boat (and radio equipment) here in South Africa, the boat must be in the country, proof of tax paid must be show. Then inspected and certified by only a local government approved surveyor (which we will have to do even after building the boat).

    Having a boat register in foreign nation is not really a option. Heard of cruisers having trouble when you passport and boat registration don't match. So extra paper work needed  and so on (and who needs more paper work when cruising). And once again South-African citizenship come in play, we are not part of EU or other unions. So we have limited options to register our boat foreign, can be done but it again adds costs (you need to register company or something like that in the nation you plan the register the boat, and so on)

    As for mortgage rates in SA. Boats are considered leisure vehicles. So you only get 5 years to pay (like a car). Boat can not be older then 5 year old(if it is older than 5 year you a need to take personal loan)  interest rate over 12% plus per year. And now you need to add insurance (anything from 2-5% of the boats price per month) plus the boat must be kept on a walk-on mooring(and  South African moorings and hard are some of the most expensive in the world to rent), and the insurance company add silly rules to how and when you can use your own boat. (yes we have looked into it as a option to get our boat)

    Now onto David W.

    Please this is not aimed at you personally, but rather the explanation on why, for us, buying a boat overseas is to costly. We will be using your $500 boat to explain.

    So start of with the cheap boat at the bargain price of only $500. Now we see the boat online, like its so next without seeing the boat need to put in a offer and pay deposit (all this most likely thru a broker) Next pay of survey, we would do this even for a boat in south africa, but this adds about $200+ to the boat. Now the boat cost $700. Cool we are happy with the survey so we buy the boat. Boat is on a mooring or on the hard so those fees now transfers to us. See online its about $50 a month in NZ (wow that's cheap). So lets say one year to refit the boat (will be longer for us but will explain next why) So $50x 12 = $600. Boat now cost us $1,300. Now we need visa, New Zealand revoked our free travel in 2016 so $100 (last i checked) and limits us to a 90 days per 180. Thus if the boat takes one year  to refit is will take us 4 visits (two years) to NZ to complete the boat so Visa $400 + again $600 for mooring the extra year. Cost of boat now $2,300. Next plane tickets at $1,500 per trip for the two of us. $6,000 for all 4 trips. Boat now cost $8,300. Now is the boat livable when we first arrive, most likely not, so $50 a day for accommodation the first month of refit. Boat now $8,900. The cost of refit it self...unknown but add whatever figure comes to mind yourself add it. Cool 2 years and a few thousands dollars later and we have a boat ready to go. Now just get the boat back to South Africa to register. But as soon as the boat arrives in South Africa you need to pay your 45% import tax. And most likely they would want to see all bills of refit and tax you on the upgrades too. So lets say after refit boat value is about $2,000....so that adds $900 import tax to the boat as well. So a $500 boat turns into a $9,200 plus boat (and that is not including the refit costs)

     Cheap overseas isn't cheap for us.

    Again a long post, we apologize.

    Thanks for bearing with us, we are just pair of cheap bums chasing after a dream that seems out of our reach, or is that budget.

    Martin & Sandy

    Our Facebook Page, Our YouTube Page, Our Patreon Page.


    Last modified: 16 Mar 2017 09:51 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Mar 2017 02:15
    Reply # 4669357 on 4602302

    As an example of what is available in New Zealand see trademe.co.nz ad number 1244484377 for a 36 foot ferro cement cutter for $500.00. It is basically complete with a sound hull, but needs some repair to rub rails, it does not show the interior or say what engine it has. Obviously would need work before going cruising but you could be out there in twelve months if you kept things very simple and worked hard. Lots more deals available, many boats have been on the market for years and an offer of half or less of the asking price will buy it.

    Last modified: 16 Mar 2017 02:18 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Mar 2017 00:31
    Reply # 4669254 on 4602302

    What are moorage rates like in SA? 

    What's the purpose of importing the boat into SA at 45% import tax (really??) if you're just going to sail it away again? Not sure about all the legalities of cruising citizenships and boat registries.

    If I understand this quick discussion correctly, SibLim is costing about $45k (NZ, $31k USD? not sure about the dollars being used here). Let's say your boat costs approximately the same, that's 13-18 years of saving for you at $200/month, not taking into account monthly boat project storage and moving, life, inflation, etc.  

    If I had 13-18 years of no sailing to work with, I would start with a 10 month full-time letter writing campaign to every yacht club, marina and sailing magazine on the planet (much like you are already doing). Something like "Help! We're trapped in SA and won't be able to go sailing for 18 years! Give us your old boat and your dream will live again! We'll keep you updated with daily blogs and video!" Maybe pay them $200/month while you're "borrowing" their boat? Maybe put up a few thousand dollars for someone to deliver it to you or travel there (cost to you, 10 months). So many old boats, so many people who can't sail them anymore, so few people buying. Chris Morejohn has a few posts documenting the dozens of cruising boats abandoned on moorings in the Caribbean. A local community marina here has multiple boats they can't get rid of, not offshore capable at the moment, but could be with a year(s) of effort that you're clearly willing to put into it. 

    There's couples out there cruising with million-dollar loaner boats, as sponsorships based on popular video blogs. Our associates on Teleport (formerly "Marco Polo III", now "Happy Day", yikes) picked up some gear sponsorships based on their documentation work. Keep working on your videography, and who knows?

    Maybe I don't understand your situation correctly, but for you guys, there has to be a quicker way to go sailing than an 18 year build project.

  • 15 Mar 2017 19:52
    Reply # 4668969 on 4602302

    Have you costed what you propose to build, even very approximately?

  • 15 Mar 2017 19:50
    Reply # 4668967 on 4602302

    Doing a quick internet search, I can only find one tube that's anywhere near to the right size:

    168.28mmx4.2mmx6000mm 6063T6  from http://www.aluminiumalloys.co.za/wp-content/

  • 15 Mar 2017 18:30
    Reply # 4668851 on 4602302

    Thanks for the input all.

    Yes buying a boat and then just converting it to a junk rig would be easier, but as stated before, and in our new video on youtube, its not a option for us.  And to buy the boat  overseas, we will have to save up months just for the tickets($1500 from South Africa to Bangkok) and accommodation($50 per night average), never mind the boat itself. Add 45% import tax to South Africa.

    We could save for the boat, at $200 a month we would have the money for a $20000 (average price here in South Africa for boats now) in about 100 months. But  by then is would not be enough due to inflation.

    So we taking the foolish path as most would say and do it ourselves, design and build. And we know the risks...living in a country where there is  53+ murders a day we know risk.


    So back to our question.

    What will be the best size tub/pipe (aluminum) to use as our mast, sail AR 2.0 reduced  by 0.9 (Chored is 4500mm) 32.63sqm?


    Thanks

    Martin & Sandy

  • 10 Mar 2017 10:23
    Reply # 4659060 on 4602302

    Thank you David

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