The Junk Rig Association

18 Oct 2011 22:28

Quote

Message # 726309

Anonymous member

As I came to realize shortly after I bought her, Seablossom is something of a hybrid junk. She came to me with a forestay and two running backstays, and a small jib among the sail collection.
More to the point, it was soon brought to my attention that her mast is still in the original position, the same position as the old Bermudan rig.
For comparison between Seablossom's rig and a representative proper junk rig see my Rig Comparisons folder; In there you will see a photo of Seablossom under sail, and Arne's Johanna under sail. The angles on the two photos are not identical, Seablossom is slightly going away and Johanna is slightly approaching the viewer, but two things are still immediately obvious. 1: Johanna's sail is far larger relative her length, and 2: her mast is well farther forward. It appears to me that the little jiblet that came with Seablossom was intended to bring the CoE forward to account for the general aft bias of the rig.
I have posted a photo of Seablossom on her trailer from the side at Members Home Page -> Your Online File Storage -> Photos -> Jeff McFadden -> Seablossom Structural. If I could direct your attention there for a moment, you will see that she has a long keel with cutaway forefoot and keel mounted rudder. (If it is not clear to you, the keel is sitting directly on the surface of the galvanized trailer backbone which shows clearly in the photo.) It is somewhat harder to see the main cabin in the photo, but there is full standing headroom in the main cabin which does not exist forward of the cabin under the foredeck.
So at issue here is the question of whether I ought to plug up the hole in the cabin top and move the mast and step forward, stepping the mast through the foredeck and building a new, much larger sail to match Johanna's, more or less.
As grist for the mill here it is also worth mentioning that Seablossom's flat sail is not in all that good shape as it stands, although it would sail (especially inland) for probably several years.
I could do all this using the existing mast, and in fact the existing mast would in the shuffle get moved out of the main saloon and into a little-used area forward, another benefit for the whole project.

Last modified: 18 Oct 2011 22:42 | Anonymous member

19 Oct 2011 00:43

Quote

Reply # 726395 on 726309

Anonymous member

Jeff, what you have written makes sense. However before you do anything more in that direction, you what to get hold of a sailplan and if possible a hull profile. A proper lines drawing would be even better than just a profile. If there is a Nor'sea association, that would be the place to start for finding the above mentioned articles.

Once you have them, David or I would be delighted to help you sort the rig out and figure the mast position and sail shape. Arne would probably also be more than glad to help if you ask him but to do the job as well as possible, please try and obtain the above mentioned drawings.

19 Oct 2011 05:27

Quote

Reply # 726549 on 726309

Anonymous member

Jeff,

If you do not have one, I just found a sail plan with profile on the net. Can upload to Box if you want.

19 Oct 2011 13:46

Quote

Reply # 726762 on 726549

Anonymous member

Paul Thompson wrote:Jeff,

If you do not have one, I just found a sail plan with profile on the net. Can upload to Box if you want.

Please do so. Thanks very much!

19 Oct 2011 20:15

Quote

Reply # 727010 on 726309

Anonymous member

Jeff, as you seem to be a man of energy and resource and still have some enthusiasm left for the project, I would very strongly recommend that you get it right now, before you start on the interior joinery etc. Especially, if moving the mast would actually improve the way the interior works. Junk rig is very forgiving, but if you are going to re-design, I would agree with Paul that you might as well do it as well as you can. There are lots of people on site who will help, and reading PJR helps you understand the why as well as the what.

Someone Close To Me reckoned he could knock out mast, partners, etc in about 3 weeks. Of course, he's never done it, but it's true that making the partners, reinforcing, cutting a new hole and filling in the old are not individually large jobs. Getting the fittings made up should not be a big issue in a farming community, where, I would guess, there are plenty of chaps happy with steel and welder. And you already have the rig. Go for it - if nothing else, it will give you something to do when you've had enough of your engine!

19 Oct 2011 20:23

Quote

Reply # 727017 on 726309

Anonymous member

Jeff,

I created a new folder "NewRig" under your "Seablossom" folder. Have placed the sail plan that I found and a word document that may be of interest to you.

The sail plan is just a gif but I'll import it into Qcad and turn it into a proper sail plan with CLR and CE for you. Once that is done we can start looking at a junk rig.

It might take me a day or two to get round to it as this must be a strictly spare time project but I'll get it done before Saturday, latest.

Do you have a copy of PJR? Can you give me the dimensions of your mast - LAP, bury and dia as we will have to base the new rig around that. Also batten and yard lengths so that they can be reused if at all possible.

You can email me direct if you like. The email address is in my profile.

20 Oct 2011 01:17

Quote

Reply # 727234 on 727017

Anonymous member

Paul Thompson wrote:Jeff,

I created a new folder "NewRig" under your "Seablossom" folder. Have placed the sail plan that I found and a word document that may be of interest to you.

The sail plan is just a gif but I'll import it into Qcad and turn it into a proper sail plan with CLR and CE for you. Once that is done we can start looking at a junk rig.

It might take me a day or two to get round to it as this must be a strictly spare time project but I'll get it done before Saturday, latest.

Do you have a copy of PJR? Can you give me the dimensions of your mast - LAP, bury and dia as we will have to base the new rig around that. Also batten and yard lengths so that they can be reused if at all possible.

You can email me direct if you like. The email address is in my profile.

Members, a question: would you prefer to have me email Paul direct, taking this conversation off the list, or would you prefer that we do this planning out here where all who are interested can follow it?

Paul, yes, I do have a (well worn) copy of PJR. I'll go out tomorrow and get the dimensions you need. I will have to do a touch of guesstimating because the bury will decrease about a foot (oh sh*t I'll need to become more conversant in metric) and the LAP will show a corresponding increase.

It is my feeling that all battens, the yard and boom will all be too short. I see the leech winding up pretty close to where it is now and the luff moving forward a considerable distance.

20 Oct 2011 01:53

Quote

Reply # 727289 on 727234

Anonymous member

Jeff McFadden wrote:
Paul, yes, I do have a (well worn) copy of PJR. I'll go out tomorrow and get the dimensions you need. I will have to do a touch of guesstimating because the bury will decrease about a foot (oh sh*t I'll need to become more conversant in metric) and the LAP will show a corresponding increase.

It is my feeling that all battens, the yard and boom will all be too short. I see the leech winding up pretty close to where it is now and the luff moving forward a considerable distance.

Jeff, don't worry about becoming metric, I'm equally at home with good King Henry's thumb even though it's not a rational way to measure things......

Ok, then we do not have to worry about the old rig. I take it that you'd like an "Arne" style sail? The important mast measurement at this stage is LAP so that I know how much mast we have to work with.

As to PJR, best you are familiar with it as the terms used for the rig are defined there. Also it's a good guide for your re-rigging. PJR is still very pertinent for cambered sails as apart from the Hong Kong parrels, everything is spot on.

20 Oct 2011 02:18

Quote

Reply # 727328 on 727289

Anonymous member

Paul Thompson wrote:
Jeff McFadden wrote:
Paul, yes, I do have a (well worn) copy of PJR. I'll go out tomorrow and get the dimensions you need. I will have to do a touch of guesstimating because the bury will decrease about a foot (oh sh*t I'll need to become more conversant in metric) and the LAP will show a corresponding increase.

It is my feeling that all battens, the yard and boom will all be too short. I see the leech winding up pretty close to where it is now and the luff moving forward a considerable distance.

Jeff, don't worry about becoming metric, I'm equally at home with good King Henry's thumb even though it's not a rational way to measure things......

Ok, then we do not have to worry about the old rig. I take it that you'd like an "Arne" style sail? The important mast measurement at this stage is LAP so that I know how much mast we have to work with.

As to PJR, best you are familiar with it as the terms used for the rig are defined there. Also it's a good guide for your re-rigging. PJR is still very pertinent for cambered sails as apart from the Hong Kong parrels, everything is spot on.

Yes, I am definitely planning on an Arne style sail. I got an email from him a couple of days ago which included a photo of Broremann's sail, with shadow lines from the halyard and mast lift laying on the camber, and the camber shows up as quite lovely.

20 Oct 2011 02:34

Quote

Reply # 727349 on 727010

Anonymous member

Annie Hill wroteJeff, as you seem to be a man of energy and resource and still have some enthusiasm left for the project, I would very strongly recommend that you get it right now, before you start on the interior joinery etc.

Truth to tell, I am a chronically lazy habitual procrastinator, but I'm just desperate to go sailing in my own real, junk cruiser.

I'll have to do a touch of joinery before I redo the rig, because the PO put a strange sort of a rectangular chute to function as a chain locker, and it slants diagonally down through the space where the mast will have to stand on its trip from the deck to the keel, where the rode terminates. Other than that I'll be going with your suggestion.

Especially, if moving the mast would actually improve the way the interior works. Junk rig is very forgiving, but if you are going to re-design, I would agree with Paul that you might as well do it as well as you can. There are lots of people on site who will help, and reading PJR helps you understand the why as well as the what.

Someone Close To Me reckoned he could knock out mast, partners, etc in about 3 weeks. Of course, he's never done it, but it's true that making the partners, reinforcing, cutting a new hole and filling in the old are not individually large jobs.

I'm pretty comfortable with that part.

Getting the fittings made up should not be a big issue in a farming community, where, I would guess, there are plenty of chaps happy with steel and welder.

Shouldn't be much to make, or at least not out of metal. I've got the existing steel step I can move, the existing steel masthead fitting I can continue to use...

And you already have the rig. Go for it - if nothing else, it will give you something to do when you've had enough of your engine!

I've already had enough of the engine! Gaskets came today...

GENERAL FORUM

Pondering Seablossom's rig