Galion 22 conversion

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  • 15 Jul 2018 11:27
    Reply # 6381820 on 5070195
    Just to make sure: I do like my Galion very much. It has many good qualities from large interior (standing headroom at the companionway + the space reminds me of 28' boats) to good behavior on large/ish seas and from an encapsulated keel to a draught suitable for handling also these shallow coastal waters of western Finland. The build quality is also excellent. 

    All this makes it even harder to accept the issue with directional stability/weather helm. This might indeed be entirely a quality of the hull shape, which I may have to learn to live with, try to fix with a new rudder - or (hopefully not) leave entirely by switching eventually to another boat. 

    On the other hand the whole issue would become almost irrelevant if the future wind vane would be able to control the boat nicely. I just can't help to think that it probably will not. I wish I'm wrong.

    I try to take this slowly and one step at a time, starting with adding more balance to the sail.

    (Just to satisfy my wild imagination: would it be possible to fix balance issues with a tiny (2-3 sqm), self-tacking headsail?)

    PS. This is the first and only picture of the boat and sail taken from outside of the boat (by a person on a motorsailer). A channel between islands dropped the wind to zero, which keeps the sail hanging in a less pleasing way, but one can see the whole boat and rig. I have added a small amount of balance after this picture was taken. To my eye it is very difficult to believe that there would be excessive weather helm because of the sail.

    Last modified: 15 Jul 2018 11:52 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Jul 2018 08:27
    Reply # 6381796 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    First of all, let me make it clear that I think the Gallion 22 is basically good, and I have no doubt that it can be put right, after a bit tweaking. If shifting the whole sail forward to 15-17% balance is not enough (it is...), then that new rudder will do the trick, just as it did for Karlis Kalnins when he gave his Otterbelly a new rudder in JRA Magazine 74, p26.

    Boat tests:
    I have read a few boat reviews in my life, and I have no doubt that the journalists are quite nice to the manufacturers. They put little weight on, for instance, the very serious handling and safety defects caused by unbalanced hull (wedge bow, barn-door transom), combined with directionally instability (lack of any skeg or similar). The fact that these craft let go the rudder and just round up if pressed to 20° heel, is more or less accepted, even for a boat with an ‘Offshore’  or ‘Ocean’ category CE certificate.

    Btw, two mags, the PBO and Water Craft landed on my doormat recently. In both of them, the new Cornish Crabber 24, MkV, was tested. Now, that is what I call a boat! They have finally given the boat a freestanding, balanced, efficient rudder, some distance aft of a longish shallow fin (plus centreboard). All it needs to be perfect is a big, nice JR.
    A Sib-Lim off the shelf!

    Arne


    Last modified: 15 Jul 2018 08:45 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 15 Jul 2018 07:19
    Reply # 6381758 on 6381631
    Anonymous wrote:
    Arne wrote:About magazine testimonials.

    Boating journalists hardly ever butch a boat. Their magazines depend on advertising  -  and the rule is: 

    Don’t bite the hand which feeds you.”


    You're being a little bit cynical there.  When I had regular work with the yachting magazines, the rule was: "if you can't say anything nice about it, then we won't publish the boat test".  One or two production boats never did get a review ...

    Yes, yes, but what I was referring to were e.g. a PBO article from the 2000's in which they were reviewing the 60's Galion to find out if it was a usedul yacht in today's standards.


  • 15 Jul 2018 01:22
    Reply # 6381631 on 6380956
    Arne wrote:About magazine testimonials.

    Boating journalists hardly ever butch a boat. Their magazines depend on advertising  -  and the rule is: 

    Don’t bite the hand which feeds you.”


    You're being a little bit cynical there.  When I had regular work with the yachting magazines, the rule was: "if you can't say anything nice about it, then we won't publish the boat test".  One or two production boats never did get a review ...
  • 14 Jul 2018 20:36
    Reply # 6381457 on 6381160
    Anonymous wrote:

    The simplest place to spot the lift and drag angles is at the Windex. The lift of the sail will by definition have to be at 90° of the arrows pointing direction, while the drag by definition points the opposite direction of what the arrow does.

    Now, if we manage to point and sail the boat as closely as 30° from the apparent wind, then we can decompose the lift and drag  force vectors (Fl and Fd) into two sets of force components running along the ship’s CL, and at 90° to it (I cheat a little, disregarding the little leeway angle of the boat)

    The sail’s lift, Fl, will produce
    a boat driving force of Fl x sin30° = 0.5 Fl
    It will also produce
    a boat heeling force of Fl x cos 30° = 0.87 Fl

    The sail’s drag, Fd, will produce
    a boat braking force of Fd x cos 30° = 0.87Fd.
    It will also produce
    a boat heeling force of Fd x sin 30° = 0.5 Fd.

    Only if the lift is sufficiently stronger, (say 3 or 4 times) than the drag, will this result in the boat going forward.

    If I get my sums right, and I guess that
    the sail’s lift/drag = 3.0, then..

    The resulting net driving force will be
    0.21 Fl  -  that is only 21% of the lift,

    and the total heeling force will be
    1.04 Fl  -  that is 104% of the sail’s lift.

    It’s a wonder we can sail to windward at all...



    Thank you Arne, I am about to sail from NW Spain, bound for England. A certain amount of the distance is likely to be to windward. I will look at my burgee with new eyes. (I had a windex, but it jumped off the mast).

    Asmat

  • 14 Jul 2018 17:02
    Reply # 6381162 on 6381157
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Robert wrote:
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hardly any boat have so neutral helm that one can sail with the tiller free. One factor that prevents this is that more than half of modern boats are not directionally stable. You can check the latter this way:

    ·         On a calm day, motor at full speed in a straight line.

    ·         Then, stop the engine ( the best would be if it was swung up) and push the tiller moderately over to start a swing.

    ·         Take your hands off the tiller and see what happens.

    ·         If the boat’s swing gradually stops and the boat takes a straight course, then she is course stable.

    ·         If the boat keeps turning or even goes into a sharper and sharper turn, then it is directionally unstable. Such a boat will need a sort of tiller lock even if you manage to get the CE to CLR distance right.

    Hi Arne--I'm curious what the folkboat does in this test?

    Ingeborg, an almost FB,  certainly straightens out the course after step 3 in the test. When tacking her, one must hold the tiller over or she stops the rotation. Quite contrary with my friend's Athena 34: Push the tiller over to initiate tacking and then she takes over. At the end of the tacking we must give contra-rudder to fix her on the new course.

    Arne


    Last modified: 14 Jul 2018 18:39 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Jul 2018 16:57
    Reply # 6381160 on 6381023
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Asmat wrote:
     The fact remains that boats with cambered sails heel more than those with flat ones. They are also less close - winded, but I concede that cambered sails are more powerful and make better progress to windward.

    I am not so sure about that. My first, flat junksail on my Albin Viggen, Malena, did never let me sail as closely to the wind as later cambered sails. Even when the wind was strong enough to be on the edge of needing a reef, we still pointed lower, although the performance gap was smaller in strong winds than in  light wind-conditions.

    My conclusion was therefore that the flat sail could never produce as high lift-to-drag ratio as the cambered sails. That is still my view. 

    Arne

    PS:

    The simplest place to spot the lift and drag angles is at the Windex. The lift of the sail will by definition have to be at 90° of the arrow's pointing direction, while the drag by definition points the opposite direction of what the arrow does.

    Now, if we manage to point and sail the boat as closely as 30° from the apparent wind, then we can decompose the lift and drag  force vectors (Fl and Fd) into two sets of force components running along the ship’s CL, and at 90° to it (I cheat a little, disregarding the little leeway angle of the boat)

    The sail’s lift, Fl, will produce
    a boat driving force of Fl x sin30° = 0.5 Fl
    It will also produce
    a boat heeling force of Fl x cos 30° = 0.87 Fl

    The sail’s drag, Fd, will produce
    a boat braking force of Fd x cos 30° = 0.87Fd.
    It will also produce
    a boat heeling force of Fd x sin 30° = 0.5 Fd.

    Only if the lift is sufficiently stronger, (say 3 or 4 times) than the drag, will this result in the boat going forward.

    If I get my sums right, and I guess that
    the sail’s lift/drag = 3.0, then..

    The resulting net driving force will be
    0.21 Fl  -  that is only 21% of the lift,

    and the total heeling force will be
    1.04 Fl  -  that is 104% of the sail’s lift.

    It’s a wonder we can sail to windward at all...



    Last modified: 14 Jul 2018 23:25 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Jul 2018 16:39
    Reply # 6381157 on 6379868
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hardly any boat have so neutral helm that one can sail with the tiller free. One factor that prevents this is that more than half of modern boats are not directionally stable. You can check the latter this way:

    ·         On a calm day, motor at full speed in a straight line.

    ·         Then, stop the engine ( the best would be if it was swung up) and push the tiller moderately over to start a swing.

    ·         Take your hands off the tiller and see what happens.

    ·         If the boat’s swing gradually stops and the boat takes a straight course, then she is course stable.

    ·         If the boat keeps turning or even goes into a sharper and sharper turn, then it is directionally unstable. Such a boat will need a sort of tiller lock even if you manage to get the CE to CLR distance right.

    Hi Arne--I'm curious what the folkboat does in this test?
  • 14 Jul 2018 13:37
    Reply # 6381023 on 6380916
       when sailing fully close-hauled, the main contributor to heeling the boat is the lift, not the drag. Surprise, surprise..
    I am surprised. The fact remains that boats with cambered sails heel more than those with flat ones. They are also less close - winded, but I concede that cambered sails are more powerful and make better progress to windward.
  • 14 Jul 2018 11:34
    Reply # 6380956 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jami,

    about weather helm.
    All the boats I have had, except Johanna would round up into the wind if I just let the tiller go. Johanna had a lee helm in light winds when close-hauled. As the wind picked up, the steering went neutral, and then she picked up weather helm as the others.

    The question is if the weather helm, rudder angle-wise, is acceptable or not. For normal upwind sailing, the rudder angle should be less than 5°, better 2°. If you generally need 5-10° rudder, you may have a problem. I notice that the stern of that Gallion 22 is fairly wide, which may suggest that she will develop more weather helm as heel passes 15° (.. as Asmat mentions below..). In that case, dropping a panel may do the trick.

    If you generally feel that you are sailing with the brakes on (big rudder angle), then, and only then would I suggest building a new, bigger rudder and fit it on the transom. I would in that case keep the original rudder, and lock it in central position to act as a course-stabilising skeg, and spare rudder.

    About magazine testimonials.
    Boating journalists hardly ever butch a boat. Their magazines depend on advertising  -  and the rule is: 

    Don’t bite the hand which feeds you.”

    Arne

    PS: I hope you can do that course stability check I described above.

     


    Last modified: 14 Jul 2018 11:34 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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