The Ideal Tender

  • 08 Feb 2018 20:33
    Reply # 5728224 on 5728099
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Both I and my 5'3" wife can move a 57lb outboard on and off the boat using cleverness rather than brute strength, so I don't see that as an obstacle.

    Yes, but can you carry it and the dinghy up the beach?  There are lots of places without dinghy docks and with decent tides in this world!

    I'd actually prefer a hard tender, and would be eager to hear suggestions of what would work to carry four adults, row well and fit comfortably on the deck of a 39' sailboat.  Most of the "ideal" candidates so far only work if you have a crew of one or two.

    Joel White "Shellback".  At 10'6" is a wonderful dinghy and surprisingly light.  You need to take out the bench seat and fit one fore and aft, and then supply it with four rowing stations, so that you can trim her perfectly depending on the number of people on board.  You can fit two in the stern and then have two rowing (shorter oars required forward).  She sails (but not with 4!), she rows beautifully, she tows (although we all know you shouldn't) really well and she's good looking.  It's worth taking out the centreboard and fitting a single leeboard on the inside of the gunwale (I have no decent photo showing that I'm afraid.)  I had one on a 35ft boat, so you should easily fit one on a 39ft one.  Centreboards in tenders are a damn nuisance in my opinion.
    If I could have only one dinghy, then something like the Shellback might be workable, although at 100lbs I think it is heavy enough to put it into the category where it is no longer easy to move around (for comparison, our RIB with engine is 152lbs).  I'd also want to try the Shellback with four aboard rowing through waves.  Many of the dinghies that are described as a joy to row are only that way when you have one or two aboard.  By the time you add four, and the bottom of the transom has sunk below the waterline, and you start to take the occasional wave over the bow, then joy doesn't really fit the bill any more.

    I'm on the BC coast, and I work here as an aquatic ecologist, so I understand what you are saying about getting boats on and off the shore in difficult locations and conditions.  We have fold-down, large-diameter wheels that cover surprisingly rough terrain to move our light RIB ashore quickly.  For steep barnacle laden rocks, I'd prefer to land with my paddle-board, tuck it under an arm, and run up the rocks.  If we really needed the RIB on such a shore we'd use an anchor and a very long piece of webbing with a bungee inside.  The bungee pulls the dinghy back out to the anchor where it happily rises and falls with the tides.  When you return, you pull the boat back in with the second line you have tied to the shore.  This also saves you carrying the boat through the muck when you come back at low tide.  

    I agree with the simplicity and durability of a hard tender that is rowed, but my experience with similar boats makes me suspect that for a family of four it would have larger than the Shellback.  Having one person row such a big boat isn't tenable and coordinating rowing with two folks side by side in rough conditions isn't always enjoyable.  Vancouver and his men did it on this coast, but they were tougher, and I doubt even they would have attempted it as a unit of father, mother and children!  However, individual kayaks are brilliant for paddling as a family.

     

    Last modified: 08 Feb 2018 23:17 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Feb 2018 19:45
    Reply # 5728145 on 5727907
    Anthony Cook wrote:

    Have you considered a Portland Pudgy.  I have thought about it myself a few times.  Lots of interesting features, but they are quite heavy to get aboard and not exactly cheap.

    I think the Portland Pudgy could be an ideal tender for some, but not for me.  Although it states a capacity for four people, if you look closely at the total capacity that would have to be four people under 140lbs with no extra capacity for gear or anything else.  Also, I can't imagine rowing it with four aboard, it is going to be very crowded.  As you've stated the Pudgy is also a bit.....pudgy (128lbs, 58kg).  I've seen a few Pudgies out here, they seem to work well with two aboard, both boats I met preferred to motor rather than row them.

    I'd really like a hard dinghy, but when you look at capacity with enough freeboard for safety and a relatively dry ride there aren't a lot of options that are manageable and have a useful working load involving four people.  I really like Dave Gerr's Nester dinghy and went so far as to buy plans for Danny Green's Chameleon.  Both of these are near 11' long assembled and both are still borderline in terms of capacity with four adults aboard.  The folks who used to make Bebe marine lights had a build article for a Danny Green Chameleon in aluminum.  I think that would be near my ideal tender.  Lightweight, long enough to row nicely, reasonable capacity and tough enough to drag across rock and barnacles with abandon.

    I've unintentionally crashed-in-on David's topic.  From the original mention of the Octenders and the Bolger Skimmer I assumed he was looking to go fast.  That isn't the case and I think David only has three to move around, so the variables for his ideal tender are different.

    For me there is no escaping a RIB for now.  Once you've seen the joy on your nine-year-old's face after years of asking for a faster dinghy there is no going back.  95lbs (43kg) for the RIB and 57lbs (26kg) for the outboard is not such a big price to pay.

    Last modified: 08 Feb 2018 23:19 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Feb 2018 19:36
    Reply # 5728099 on 5727806
    Both I and my 5'3" wife can move a 57lb outboard on and off the boat using cleverness rather than brute strength, so I don't see that as an obstacle.

    Yes, but can you carry it and the dinghy up the beach?  There are lots of places without dinghy docks and with decent tides in this world!

    I'd actually prefer a hard tender, and would be eager to hear suggestions of what would work to carry four adults, row well and fit comfortably on the deck of a 39' sailboat.  Most of the "ideal" candidates so far only work if you have a crew of one or two.

    Joel White "Shellback".  At 10'6" is a wonderful dinghy and surprisingly light.  You need to take out the bench seat and fit one fore and aft, and then supply it with four rowing stations, so that you can trim her perfectly depending on the number of people on board.  You can fit two in the stern and then have two rowing (shorter oars required forward).  She sails (but not with 4!), she rows beautifully, she tows (although we all know you shouldn't) really well and she's good looking.  It's worth taking out the centreboard and fitting a single leeboard on the inside of the gunwale (I have no decent photo showing that I'm afraid.)  I had one on a 35ft boat, so you should easily fit one on a 39ft one.  Centreboards in tenders are a damn nuisance in my opinion.
  • 08 Feb 2018 19:29
    Reply # 5728092 on 5727907
    Anthony Cook wrote:

    Have you considered a Portland Pudgy.  I have thought about it myself a few times.  Lots of interesting features, but they are quite heavy to get aboard and not exactly cheap.


    They also row like a tyre!
  • 08 Feb 2018 17:36
    Reply # 5727907 on 5713176

    Have you considered a Portland Pudgy.  I have thought about it myself a few times.  Lots of interesting features, but they are quite heavy to get aboard and not exactly cheap.

  • 08 Feb 2018 16:28
    Reply # 5727806 on 5725797
    David Tyler wrote:
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Darren Bos wrote:

    Since we are talking about a fast outboard powered tender, I'd start at the motor and work forward from there. 

    No we're not!  We're talking about the ideal tender and surely no-one would regard something that requires an engine that would be too large for many people to lift, to be the ideal tender.  In fact surely no one would regard as ideal any tender that requires an outboard motor!
    One of the requirements for the ideal tender is surely that its crew should be able to get it up a sandy/muddy/stony/rocky beach. Wheels will help, but not all the time. Sometimes the crew must be able to carry it. The plywood dinghy that I made for Tystie was an easy carry for two people, but eventually I fitted wheels to be able to manage it single-handed. If I'd taken leave of my senses and fitted a sizeable motor, I wouldn't have been able to get it up a difficult beach at all.
    I'm definitely in the camp that there is no ideal tender.  We actually have a fleet of tenders to meet our needs.  Nothing can rival an inflatable/outboard for load carrying capacity and speed and there are times when it is the best for the job.  However, I would never want to give up paddling/rowing either.  We also carry a tandem collapsible frame kayak and several high performance inflatable kayaks and paddle boards.  I find the kayaks both faster and more seaworthy than the average rowing tender.  Both I and my 5'3" wife can move a 57lb outboard on and off the boat using cleverness rather than brute strength, so I don't see that as an obstacle. 

    I'd actually prefer a hard tender, and would be eager to hear suggestions of what would work to carry four adults, row well and fit comfortably on the deck of a 39' sailboat.  Most of the "ideal" candidates so far only work if you have a crew of one or two.

  • 08 Feb 2018 07:52
    Reply # 5727282 on 5713176

    Hi David Thatcher,

    did you look at my 10 ft nesting dinghy design? Please do and let me know what you think of her, she may suit your needs quite well. She will be fairly light as she only uses two sheets of 6 mm ply for the basic hull, and one sheet of 4 mm for the buoyancy tanks etc. If she is built for nesting then there is the added weight of the extra bulkheads to add.

    David Webb

    Last modified: 08 Feb 2018 07:56 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Feb 2018 06:44
    Reply # 5727247 on 5726694
    Deleted user
    David Webb wrote:

    It seems that we may have some conflict in the meaning of the heading for this post. Firstly I would state that there is no ideal tender that suits everyone. 

    David, you are correct in stating that there is no ideal tender that suits everyone. It seems that many modern Boaties consider the ideal tender to be an inflatable with an outboard motor. This is not me. We do have a 2hp Suzuki outboard for our inflatable dinghy but the outboard has actually spent all of our current summer sitting in a shed at home. So for me the ideal tender would have to include the requirement that it be able to be rowed. Our current inflatable dinghy has an inflatable keel so it can be rowed, but it is not easy work. So that probably rules out the Bolger Skimmer which really needs to be pushed by an outboard motor.

    One of the things I enjoy about the boating life is the physical activity involved which would include rowing, pulling up and sheeting the sail, and using our manual anchor winch to retrieve the anchor.

  • 08 Feb 2018 06:35
    Reply # 5727246 on 5725728
    Deleted user
    Phil Gillespie wrote:

    Hi again David. The issue of Chinese made dinghys of new zealand design is interesting. I woraked for aquapro nz that designed and manufactured inflatables in NZ. The company was successful to the point of struggling to keep up with orders both domestic and ecport. It was bought by Survitic, a company registered in Ireland that also supplies R F D liferafts. Upon purchase they moved manufacturing to China. Same designs, same p v c fabric manufactured in France and Germany, glue made in  China. We would unpack and inflate boats and then one month in the sun all the glued pieces would fall off, handles, rowlocks, transoms etc. It got to the point we removed and reglued all these before any new boats were sold. Beware of r f d liferafts!!!

    An interesting thing is the my previous inflatable was a Southern Pacific manufactured in New Zealand which actually suffered the same fate. Partly my fault because it was afew years old and I lent it to my employer of the time to act as a window display for boating safety. So after a couple of weeks in the window in the sun, the next time I used the dinghy it literally fell apart on me on my journey from boat to shore. I survived! So I think the problem is related to some sort of chemical reaction between the glue and the plastic, but not so much the actual dinghy fabric.
  • 07 Feb 2018 20:55
    Reply # 5726694 on 5713176

    It seems that we may have some conflict in the meaning of the heading for this post. Firstly I would state that there is no ideal tender that suits everyone. A tender that may be ideal for a single handed cruiser with the time to row or sail ashore with no pressure is very different to a family man who needs a tender to go a couple of miles out to his boat mooring with a family and weekend's supplies after getting back from work and does not want to make two trips, or miss the tide. I believe that Annie and David Tyler are in the former category and David Thatcher and Darren Bos in the latter, so very different tenders would be ideal for the different people concerned. I built an 11' 6" garvey about ten years ago that would suit Darren Bos and David Thatcher's needs and funnily enough she has just reappeared in the small Marina next to where I now live. I built her entirely by eye out of salvaged materials, so she was heavy (about 220 pounds), but she went 20 knots with a 25 horsepower, about 12 knots with and 8 horsepower outboard and rowed quite well. She could probably be built scaled down to about 9 feet and to a weight of about 100 pounds, She would do quite well with a ten horsepower outboard.  I will try and get some photos posted in the next few days and possibly ask the new owner if I can measure her and then produce some plans, if that would be of use to you David? Kurt Ulmer may remember her as I towed Mehitabel back to her mooring in Whangarei Harbor with the Garvey.

    Last modified: 07 Feb 2018 21:03 | Anonymous member
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