S2 6.7 Junk Rig Conversion

  • 07 Jun 2021 18:21
    Reply # 10601801 on 6872873
    Conditions were right to have the full sail up and be out on the 'big lake' on Saturday. I was able to record a video. Please ignore the mess of lines and dirty boat.

    On the starboard tack on a close reach the sail balances the boat just about perfectly without me touching anything. On the port tack there just a little bit of weather helm. It is barely noticeable but it is enough that the boat will tack through if I don't keep my hand on the tiller.

    The video shows me tacking to change from the starboard to port tack. It is much more difficult to 'make' this tack. I have 'missed' and got blown back onto the starboard tack several times. (It seems to happen most often when people on shore can see me). Tacking the other direction is very easy. I have never had a problem.

    I am trying to decide if this is a problem that I can fix, or if this is just the way it is.

    3 files
    Last modified: 07 Jun 2021 18:53 | Anonymous member
  • 24 May 2021 15:05
    Reply # 10544465 on 10529940
    Ueli wrote:

    hi scott

    sitting on the lee side is very convenient in light winds – and it reduces the lee helm a lot on small boats.

    I will try moving my personal ballast around like you suggested. I think I was staying on one side of the boat while I was attempting to sail in the very light wind. This explains why the lee helm was worse on one tack. Thank you.

  • 24 May 2021 14:37
    Reply # 10544381 on 10531572

    Annie wrote:

    I had to have the mat band made because of the stainless steel tubing attached to the back of it, that the bolt goes through.  I was lucky enough to find a real 'old-time' metalworker for this, who took the trouble to understand what it was we were trying to achieve and to sketch it out so that we were both on the same page.  I wish I'd known about him earlier.  He also lined the ring with Mylar to avoid any corrosion between it and the mast.  I obviously didn't take a photo of it when we were stepping the mast - I was a tad distracted at the time!  It's pouring with rain at present, but if you require a photo, I'll take one for you when the weather improves.

    I agree with the other comments that lee helm is not unusual in very light airs, with junk rig.  Also, of course, junk rig is much more amenable to adjustments made after the event, than a sail sliding up a track or hanked to a forestay.

    Hi Annie,

    Thank you for the response. Please do not go out in the rain just to get me a photo. When the weather is better and, if you have time, I would like to see some of the details.

    I am always amazed to find that there is a proper nautical term for every part of a sailboat. I spent some time looking at images of 'mast bands' used on traditional western sailing rigs. I had no idea this piece had a name.

    On Saturday the weather was just about perfect for day sailing on Lake Michigan. The wind was about 9 knots from the south with smooth water and clear weather. This is perfect for going out on a reach, as far as you care to go, and then sailing right back on the reciprocal tack.

    In these conditions I experienced neutral helm and just a slight bit of pleasant weather helm. It was a good day sailing and I am very happy with the rig.

    To be clear I am absolutely happy that I converted to a Junk Rig. It is so much better for single handed sailing than a mainsail on a track and a hanked-on foresail.

    In no particular order this is what I am enjoying:

    - If I need to drop the sail and depower the rig quickly all I have to do it let the halyard go from the rope clutch. This is awesome.

    - If I need just a little bit of sail to get moving again in the harbor it is just as easy to pull one or two panels back up and sail slowly. The precise maneuvering I can do under sail is great.

    - The sail is so quiet. Letting the sail luff makes a very soft and pleasant sound. To me it sounds like fresh, dry snow under my boots on a calm winter night. This is so much different than a triangular Dacron sail flogging in the wind.

    - I can round the boat up into the wind (in irons) to stop for a minute without any stressful sail noise. This has already been useful several times.

    - I have one big yellow sail.

    - Even when things did not go exactly right hoisting the sail I never had to leave the cockpit. I am sure I am much safer. It is very unlikely that I will fall on to the deck or off of the boat.

    - Self tacking! Working my way up wind is fun. No sail trimming required. I just sail back and forth using the tiller. It is so easy and enjoyable.

    Scott.

    1 file
    Last modified: 24 May 2021 17:34 | Anonymous member
  • 24 May 2021 13:56
    Reply # 10544275 on 10530156
    Frederik wrote:

    Hi Scott. Congratulations.

    Ready to take on a little hogfish soon?

    Hi Frederik,

    Thank you. I think I would enjoying building a HF32, or maybe a sister ship to Fanshi.

    It took me 2 and a half years to convert my boat. Building a boat must be at least 10 times as much effort. I suspect it is actually more. If I spend 25 years building a boat starting around mid-life that does not seem to leave much time for actually sailing. I am very interested to know approximately how many hours you spent on your boat, when you are finished.

  • 22 May 2021 00:34
    Reply # 10531572 on 10526531
    Scott wrote:

    Annie: Can please tell me, does Fanshi have a large insulated pipe clamp for a hinge, or was that custom made?

    I am a little concerned about the helm balance. With the right wind speed and the right angle into the wind it is perfectly balanced. This is huge change from my South Coast 23 where I had to pull against the weather helm constantly. But in light air the boat has lee helm

    I had to have the mat band made because of the stainless steel tubing attached to the back of it, that the bolt goes through.  I was lucky enough to find a real 'old-time' metalworker for this, who took the trouble to understand what it was we were trying to achieve and to sketch it out so that we were both on the same page.  I wish I'd known about him earlier.  He also lined the ring with Mylar to avoid any corrosion between it and the mast.  I obviously didn't take a photo of it when we were stepping the mast - I was a tad distracted at the time!  It's pouring with rain at present, but if you require a photo, I'll take one for you when the weather improves.

    I agree with the other comments that lee helm is not unusual in very light airs, with junk rig.  Also, of course, junk rig is much more amenable to adjustments made after the event, than a sail sliding up a track or hanked to a forestay.

  • 21 May 2021 18:44
    Reply # 10530156 on 6872873

    Hi Scott. Congratulations.

    Ready to take on a little hogfish soon?

  • 21 May 2021 17:00
    Reply # 10529940 on 6872873

    hi scott

    sitting on the lee side is very convenient in light winds – and it reduces the lee helm a lot on small boats.


  • 21 May 2021 09:40
    Reply # 10529098 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Scott,

    about that lee helm:
    The CE of that sail was drawn to sit close to or a little aft of the Bermuda rig’s CE. It would surprise me a lot if your boat fails to tack because of lee helm. In that case the lee helm must be so strong that the rudder is braking the boat.
    There are several ways to deal with a not-severe lee helm:

    • ·         Leave it as it is. My 29’ Johanna had some lee helm in light winds when fully close-hauled. She never missed a tack, and this position of the sail ensured that her general helm balance was very good. In reefing conditions I hauled the sail a bit more aft, and always had a light weather helm then.
    • ·         Move the halyard’s slingpoint a bit further forward on the yard, which lets you pull the sail further aft. Don’t overdo this, or the yard may end up tail-heavy when hoisting or lowering it. Shorten the tack parrel as well to keep the luff about parallel with the mast.
    • ·         Sit on the lee side when sailing in light winds. Heeling the boat a little use to help on speed, and may also do some good to the helm balance.

    Good luck.
    Arne


  • 21 May 2021 00:44
    Reply # 10527951 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Congratulatons from me too.

    My little Serendipity has slight lee helm sometimes, in very light wind - and when pushed hard and heeling develops excess weather helm. This is not unusual - hull shape has a lot to do with it, you can't always entirely solve that. But with a small boat like yours -at least with Serendipity anyway - I have found that if I sit right at the front of the cockpit in light airs, the lee helm becomes neutral. And I have to make sure the centreboard is fully down.

    (If heeling a lot and over-pressed, the excess weather helm is mitigated by sitting right back at the stern and if necessary, raising the board a little).

    Adjusting a swinging centreboard is likely to be more effective for this purpose than with a vertically raising board like yours - but still, make sure it is fully down if you have lee helm. Altering for-and-aft trim with your own weight, if you can, should make a noticeable difference to the helm, on a small boat).


    Last modified: 21 May 2021 05:12 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 20 May 2021 15:58
    Reply # 10526531 on 6872873

    Thank you David and Annie,

    At 2.5 years into my one year plan to convert this boat I am very happy to finally be sailing.

    I was out a few more times but I have been too focused on sailing the boat to stop and take some photos. I am pleased with how the sail turned out. I credit Arne's excellent instructions for that result. The parts where I had to use my own ingenuity are not so great. I need to find a better mast/tabernacle hinge.

    Annie: Can please tell me, does Fanshi have a large insulated pipe clamp for a hinge, or was that custom made?

    I still need to get some fendering on the boom and yard, and do something about getting the empty boat trimmed a little better (move the battery again). I need a hoop to keep the sheets off me, and I would like to have a windvane to steer for me -- so maybe by the 2030's sometime I should be done?

    I am a little concerned about the helm balance. With the right wind speed and the right angle into the wind it is perfectly balanced. This is huge change from my South Coast 23 where I had to pull against the weather helm constantly. But in light air the boat has lee helm. I am a lot more comfortable with neutral or weather helm than lee helm. I am concerned that I might not be able to tack in some situations. This could be dangerous.

    I have the sail set pretty far aft already. I wonder if I got the mast too far forward or if maybe there is some (unintentional) forward mast rake.

    I decided to name the boat 'Thread'.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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