The "Sib-Lim" Challenge

  • 20 Sep 2016 12:33
    Reply # 4258996 on 3144241
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I agree with David that the Sib-Lim design is plenty seaworthy.

    However there is one factor which I put some weight on for a coastal cruiser; weatherliness  -  that is, ability to tack away from a lee shore against rising winds and waves. Normally, Sib-Lim will be fine, but since she is to be fitted with an outboard engine in a good, central position, I suggest you go for one of decent size. I suggest an 8 – 9.9hp unit with long leg and sail drive. I know, most of the time this will be an overkill, but it is wonderful to have that extra thrust to let you motorsail to safety in a bad squall. I also found on the 3-ton Johanna that her 9.9hp Yamaha with hi-thrust drive, made tricky harbour manoeuvres (surrounded by expensive boats) so much safer. Besides, a 2-pot engine runs  a lot smoother than one with only one cylinder.

    My present Marieholm IF certainly doesn’t need any help to tack to windward  -  she can “tack on a wet towel”. I therefore went for only 6hp. Well and fine, but I still could use a bit more ooomph when I want to take her out sailing in a blow. That harbour is a tight fit and the windage of the forward-set mast is very noticeable.

    Arne

     

    Last modified: 20 Sep 2016 16:23 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 20 Sep 2016 10:04
    Reply # 4258811 on 3144241

    Steve,

    The thing is, that Annie probably won't be "voyaging", as she and I understand the term. SibLim is configured as a coastal cruising boat, with the shoal draught keel that Annie has got made. More important than self-righting during an ocean storm (Beaufort storm F10, which implies winds in excess of 50 knots and wave heights well in excess of 4 metres) is the ability to creep up into the mangroves when such conditions are forecast for New Zealand. A routine gale is a different matter. I don't have any qualms about SibLim's safety in an inshore strong breeze-to-gale situation, Beaufort F6 - F8. There, the seas are below 4 metres, and there is little danger of knockdown. And if Annie does decide to go on a trip up to the Islands (Fiji, Tonga, etc), it would be undertaken during a good weather window.

    But some people who have expressed interest in the design have said that they want to cross oceans. In which case, I have said that the keel ought to be deeper, to lower the CG and ensure a greater angle of vanishing stability, AVS.

    Having said that, it is possible to voyage safely in a vessel of shoal draught. I did it, in Tystie. In 85,000 miles I never encountered Beaufort F10 storm force conditions in the open ocean - it's rare, unless you go into the Southern Ocean - but in Beaufort F8 and F9, gale and strong gale, she felt safe enough, with careful handling. She is CE-marked as being in category A, ocean, and has an AVS sufficiently large to recover quickly from knockdowns. It's not only about deep draught, it's also about a number of other factors in boat design. The link you give to an older form of lifeboat shows a type that was self-righting because of the whaleback design of the deck.

    Last modified: 20 Sep 2016 10:14 | Anonymous member
  • 19 Sep 2016 22:27
    Reply # 4258027 on 3144241
    Deleted user
    Full-length, deep keels seem usual for voyaging.  Even though it was a requirement of the Challenge, I was still surprised (alarmed) to see Sib-Lim's shoal draft and 'small' keel.  My first thought:  'how will she manage in storm?!'

    Regardless, I am charmed by the design and intrigued--it recalls to me older New England Coast Guard Rescue boats, e.g. http://cg36500.org

    Any comment on Sib-Lim's expected 'stability', or 'righting' ability will be enjoyed and appreciated.  Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.  Thanks.

  • 05 Jun 2016 01:47
    Reply # 4057871 on 3144241
    Chris has just sent a wonderful design to Box.  Unfortunately I can't give a link because I can only open it via my email.  Can you make one, Chris, or upload the pdf to Documents, in the Members' Area for everyone to enjoy?  I don't feel I can presume to do it.

    This design is something he was working on before the SibLim Challenge, but ticks many of my boxes and would have been very attractive to me, had David Tyler not come up with his design.  Chris, like all of us, has his own ideas of what should and should not be on a boat.  One of his choices implies a dyed-in-the-wool single-hander.  But then he doesn't live on his boat!

    The centre-board arrangement does away with a number of my reservations about these devices, because it is so well forward in the boat that it shouldn't get constantly clogged with mud.  Whether you could raise and lower it from the cockpit, I wot not.

    The rig is intriguing and I am dying to know how the sheeting would work: there are 9 battens and a boom to control!

    I love the design, Chris, and hope that other people do, too.  It would be great to see it worked up into a 'real' boat.

  • 01 Sep 2015 09:28
    Reply # 3504579 on 3504173
    David Thatcher wrote: for us unfortunately taller people.
    Ah, yes: vertically challenged can mean more than one thing!  In  truth, there are very few advantages in being a hobbit: small boats are one of my compensations in life.  But my friend Gary Underwood is pretty rabid about the infatuation that the late twentieth century had with full headroom - and he is not a short man.  He reckoned you need a space about 4ft square where you can stand up.  It's all a person needs to pull on his trousers.  Almost everything else you can do either sitting or prone!
  • 01 Sep 2015 00:22
    Reply # 3504173 on 3503947
    David Tyler wrote:


    I think the SibLim design is suitable for people up to 5ft 9in / 175cm, with very little alteration. We've taken off the wedge-shaped coachroof, because Annie doesn't need it. It could easily be added again, but in any case, I wouldn't expect, or want to see, full standing headroom in a 26 footer.


    One of my current favorite dream yachts is the RM890. a production cruiser built in France with a plywood hull and most of the features I desire in a yacht, with the exception of the junk rig of course. But even that boat does not have full standing headroom, so the headroom can be difficult to achieve in a shorter boat and still retain good looks. If I do get to build Siblim I would certainly include a modified version of the wedge that David has mentioned which could actually be made to look like a dodger of types and could include some windows. This would provide a bit more headroom and light in the saloon/galley area of the boat and make the design just a little more friendly for us unfortunately taller people.
  • 31 Aug 2015 21:04
    Reply # 3503947 on 3144241

    Jonathan,

    I think the SibLim design is suitable for people up to 5ft 9in / 175cm, with very little alteration. We've taken off the wedge-shaped coachroof, because Annie doesn't need it. It could easily be added again, but in any case, I wouldn't expect, or want to see, full standing headroom in a 26 footer. The bulkheads in the sleeping cabin and saloon are 6ft 2in / 188cm apart, so that's OK. Annie likes her galley counter at 2ft 9in / 84cm, which is actually a little higher than I have on Tystie. We are planning the cockpit to suit Annie's particular requirements, but that's easily altered by another builder.  I don't think we have a problem. 

    It's very easy to scale the 3D model in Freeship to, say, a JRA34 (at Badger or Tystie size), or even a  JRA42 (Galway Blazer size). The hard work comes when making detailed 2D drawings for construction.

    In my dreams, I see a fleet of thirty JRA26 junks, with multi-coloured sails, racing round the cans in the Bay of Islands, or the Solent. Well, all right then, three. Even three would justify the work we're putting in.

  • 31 Aug 2015 11:35
    Reply # 3503069 on 3144241

    Could I please put forward a suggestion for a future development of the SibLim?

    As I understand it, the current design and model are tailor made for Annie who is shorter than average.  (In the same way that Ellen MacArthur's Kingfisher was tailor made for her; she is also shorter than average.)

    Now Peter Scandling has expressed an interest in making a SibLim.  As I recall it, he is far from tall and so the proposed design might suit him also.   

    However, there is probably a majority of people for whom the current design might be annoyingly cramped in some details. 

    At some time in the future, if David and Annie still had the energy and enthusiasm, might it be possible to consider a standard design to suit the 95 percentile person? (Or possibly the 98 percentile.)

    I realise that there would be more to that than just magnifying the plans! 

    However if a design were to suit 95% of people, there might be more chance of it being readily adopted and so preserving and making best use of the considerable efforts put into and the lessons learned from the Annie Hill SibLim.  (The Tyler 26?  The JRA 26, or do we not go there!?) 

    Just a thought from an idle bystander ...  

     

  • 21 Aug 2015 09:44
    Reply # 3490208 on 3490128
    David Webb wrote:

    Hi Annie,

    nice to see that you made a decision and are going to build. Having done it myself I know how much enjoyment and satisfaction ( as well as heartache and grief) it will give you.  David T has provided a great design for you and I will be interested in seeing her built.

    I will be building a boat as soon as Arcadian sells and it will be a Rodark or similar, may even be a Puffin, or a melding of the two. I am interested in making her trailerable so the water ballast of Rodark has great attraction. Anyway first thing is to finish Gypsy who is waiting in the shed for my return to New Zealand in late October. We have just launched Gypsy II in Australia and are now moored at the finger Wharf in Tweed Heads and hope to be sailing in a couple of weeks.

     Anyway I will be interested to see progress on Sib-Lim when I get back to New Zealand.

    All the best, David.

    David: so kind of you to respond so positively.  After all your work and inspiration, you can't help but be disappointed and must be really keen to see Puffin in build, sooner or later.  I am only too aware that 9 months into the project I will be despairing of its ever being completed and entirely convinced that I'm barking mad.  I'm hoping that one day I'll be standing there with a bottle of bubbly and a big smile as her keel is about to touch the water.

    I could see the Rodark in your Sib-Lim, and am not surprised that you are thinking of melding the two.  Not even you could build both of them!  It's great to hear of all your projects and I'm very much looking forward to seeing progress on Rodark/Puffin when you come home.  Lots going on in Whangarei: the Antipodean home of Junk Rig.  Please bring lots of pics of Gypsy II for the next junket!  (BTW Marcus's shed was a great venue, but we need Arcadian when we are meeting afloat!)

  • 21 Aug 2015 08:05
    Reply # 3490128 on 3144241

    Hi Annie,

    nice to see that you made a decision and are going to build. Having done it myself I know how much enjoyment and satisfaction ( as well as heartache and grief) it will give you.  David T has provided a great design for you and I will be interested in seeing her built.

    I will be building a boat as soon as Arcadian sells and it will be a Rodark or similar, may even be a Puffin, or a melding of the two. I am interested in making her trailerable so the water ballast of Rodark has great attraction. Anyway first thing is to finish Gypsy who is waiting in the shed for my return to New Zealand in late October. We have just launched Gypsy II in Australia and are now moored at the finger Wharf in Tweed Heads and hope to be sailing in a couple of weeks.

     Anyway I will be interested to see progress on Sib-Lim when I get back to New Zealand.

    All the best, David.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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