Moon River build update

  • 15 Aug 2017 19:24
    Reply # 5031030 on 5008877
    Deleted user

    Thank you, both, Bob and Robert.

    Come to think of it, the designer of a boat I built a few years ago recommended RAKA - and I even think I used it.  How the hell did I forget about it?

    Probably because epoxy is a small expense on a small project - an extra $100 over two or three years.  But now, at the rate I'm going...

    I'm going to order the RAKA - thanks for saving me literally hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars.

  • 15 Aug 2017 17:52
    Reply # 5030843 on 5008877

    You might want to check out Raka Epoxy (http://store.raka.com/kits.aspx) which I've been using for over a decade and have never had anything but excellent results with. A quick look at their current pricing shows a nine gallon kit sells for $459.

    For the record, I've also used Sicomin, SP, Hexcel, System 3, Mas, WEST, and the Raka products work just as well or better and their service ias far as shipping is as good as it gets.

  • 15 Aug 2017 17:31
    Reply # 5030815 on 5028551
    Deleted user
    Scott Dufour wrote:

    I'm also going through epoxy at an alarming rate - almost 4 gallons in just a few weeks. I'm pretty frugal with it, too; I'm certainly not over-saturating the glass. It's MAS Epoxy. I can get it locally at Defender Marine in Connecticut for $439 per five gallons of resin, and another $400 for the 2.5 gallons of hardener that goes with it.

    Hi Scott--

    You may want to test a gallon of:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLEAR-EPOXY-RESIN-1-GALLON-KIT-UV-RESISTANT-MARINE-GRADE-NON-TOXIC-BOAT-/232095741821?hash=item3609fbf77d

    to see if it works for you. Cost is substantially less then you quote and free shipping.

    I've only used it in small batchs of 10 ml to 200 ml and it always kicked. Does not seem to require super precise mix ratio. I've used with success to laminate 4oz Dynel to plywood. Have not laminated fiberglass. Continues (3 yr exposed) to adhere nicely to my aluminum mast where the battens rub.

    Last modified: 15 Aug 2017 17:36 | Deleted user
  • 14 Aug 2017 14:25
    Reply # 5028551 on 5008877
    Deleted user

    Update 14 Aug 2017.

    An absolutely beautiful weekend in New England.  And I got a little done on the boat.

    Patched in and glassed in the large aft deadlight hole in the cabin trunk.  Made of 1/4" okume, I glassed the inside of the patch with two layers of 1708 biax. Outside, both the glass trunk and the plywood were beveled out to allow a gentler transition between the materials - standard fiberglass repair stuff. I didn't have much room above and below the opening, though, so the scarf is shorter than I'd like - maybe 2" max.  Two complete layers of 1708 across the whole opening, then two more layers of 1708 strips - one 4 inches wide, the other 2 inches, laid into the groove.  I'll fair it all later after generous and gentle angle grinding.  It wasn't my cleanest work.



    I also lifted the head's forward bulkhead shape and fabricated that from two pieces of Doug Fir ply.  At first I was annoyed that I had to do it in two pieces because it was 2 inches too big to fit through the companionway.  But breaking it into sections allowed me to make better use of leftover plywood.  


    I do have to brag a little on the fit.  It landed exactly on the lines I put on the hull and trunk, first time, no adjustments needed at all. Plumb to within 1 degree, the straight edge on the interior lining up perfectly. The photo below has a very bright light behind the bulkhead to exaggerate the gaps. I really like the popsicle-stick-firring-strip-hot-glue-gun technique.



    I'm also going through epoxy at an alarming rate - almost 4 gallons in just a few weeks. I'm pretty frugal with it, too; I'm certainly not over-saturating the glass. It's MAS Epoxy. I can get it locally at Defender Marine in Connecticut for $439 per five gallons of resin, and another $400 for the 2.5 gallons of hardener that goes with it.

    It's a conundrum: when I'm not able to make progress on the boat, it feels awful.  And when I am making progress on the boat... Oh! The expense!

    Last modified: 25 Aug 2017 15:18 | Deleted user
  • 10 Aug 2017 15:01
    Reply # 5022981 on 5008877
    Deleted user

    Annie,

    For fillets that are structural elements, I use a mix of wood flour, silica, milled glass fiber, and sometimes, depending upon how strong I need it, chopped fiberglass.

    For bulkhead to hull tabbing, I don't use the heavy duty mix.  It's phenolic microballoons to keep it light and some silica to make it thixotropic. I go by the school of thought that the fillets themselves are not structural components. Some reputable builders are using merely foam to form them to avoid hard spots, especially on the thinner layup hulls that are de rigueur these days. Not that current building standards are necessarily all that great, of course.  The Pearson 10M is a hefty layup, though, and in any case, the structural strength comes from the well-radiused glass tabbing.  I know that you know all this - just clarifying my technique.

    I should add that, perhaps overkill, the edges of the plywood bulkhead, even though they are getting buried in the filleting mush, all get three coats of epoxy to seal them before going into place.  I never, never, never want to replace one of these babies because of rot.

    Incidentally, the original boat had about a 1/2" gap between the bulkheads and the hull, kept off with a few tiny squares of what looked like carpet remnants, no filleting material at all.  The glass was just laid on, bridging across the corner to make its natural radius. Water eventually worked down that channel from the above (or condensation, perhaps), rotted those little carpet pieces, and caused the nastiest boat funk smell.  I even found an ant colony in one of them.  They hadn't worked their way into the wood, which was surprising.

    Last modified: 25 Aug 2017 15:15 | Deleted user
  • 09 Aug 2017 22:16
    Reply # 5021435 on 5008877

    Scott, are you adding silica to the microballoons?  If you're using these fillets as structural components, they should be at least 50% silica.  I usually add a few fibres, too, to help wick the epoxy along if you have dry places in the plywood.  The silica has a second value: it stops the microballoon paste from sagging when you've overworked it.

    And yes, the 'I'll just ...' jobs take forever.  My favourite trick at the moment is either not sanding precoated pieces until I'm just about to install them, or sanding both sides and then remembering one isn't going to be painted and having to coat it again!  (I can't put it in matt, even in 'nobody will see'!)

  • 09 Aug 2017 20:26
    Reply # 5021239 on 5008877
    Deleted user
    Update:

    The main bulkhead is now fully tabbed in.  Two overlapping layers of 6" wide 1708 biaxial tape, doubling that up at the top of the bulkhead where it serves as the forward portion of the mast partner.

    I was pleasantly surprised at how easily the biaxial tape followed the hull curvature without the need for cutting darts on the bulkhead.  The extra material mushed flat easily.  It's not at all like working with woven cloth - both in the fact that it's on the bias, and also that the individual fibers are a bit freer to slide past each other.

    That clingwrap covered pan you see on the makeshift bench on the left is my wetout tray.  In the past, I've tended to wetout in place because I could work gravity-down in most cases. But the 1708 tends to really soak up the epoxy, and it's no fun to wetout tape that's over your head.  The tray works great and I could easily handle pieces 6 feet long.



    The tabbing takes a surprisingly long time. I'm averaging about 3 to 4 feet an hour. The big time drag comes from mixing up the filleting compound of epoxy and phenolic microballoons.  It requires mixing small batches to keep it from generating too much heat before I can get it in place. 

    Anyway - that's done.


    Last modified: 09 Aug 2017 20:33 | Deleted user
  • 07 Aug 2017 21:31
    Reply # 5017181 on 5008877

    You can always lay it out with a word processor and then copy and paste.  I think you need to upload, rather than copy, the photos, but you can select all that you want and do it at one time.  It's nice to know that you have something to fill your boring lunch hours ;-)

  • 07 Aug 2017 13:57
    Reply # 5016435 on 5008877
    Deleted user

    Thanks, Annie.

    What I don't particularly like about the tick-stick method is that you can't layout the pattern on a sheet of plywood and move it around to get the best use of material - you have to reconstitute it first on a pattern - paper or cardboard or something - and then move the pattern around on the expensive plywood.  With the cheap frame and popsicle stick method, I've got the pattern exactly the right size, with as much detail in the fiddly sections as I can tolerate, and can make notes right on the little sticks if need be. 

    I do get a few hot glue burns, though.

    As for posting pictures on here  - truly a PITA, and the blog would be easier... except I do most of this during lunch at work, and from behind a firewall.  Anything bloggy or social media-ish are blocked.  I consider it very lucky that they haven't blocked the JRA yet.  I wonder, if they had blocked it years ago, if I'd even be building a junk. I probably wouldn't have stumbled upon the site.  You know, on my lunch hour.  Not, like, during the rest of the day when I'm supposed to be running financial spreadsheets and analyzing potential risk for a new 2nd stage high turbine blade or nuthin'. I wouldn't dream of that.   

    Last modified: 09 Aug 2017 18:08 | Deleted user
  • 02 Aug 2017 21:51
    Reply # 5009280 on 5008877

    Wow! What a lot of work.  Nothing like starting with a clean slate, eh?  It all looks both neat and solid.  Your method of pattern making seems to have worked very well - the bulkhead is a great fit.  I must confess I've never got on with a tick stick myself.  I think you have to have worked with someone using this method really to get your head round it.

    I see that you're uploading your photos in your album and then putting them in your posting.  I know how tedious this is and you might find it easier simply to run a blog and link to it from this thread, with a brief outline of what you've been doing.  It does save time and your non JRA friends can follow you, too.

    It's great to have someone else telling us about their Big Project - it makes me feel that there are other people in, so to speak, the same boat as I am!  Keep up the good work and keep us up to date with your progress.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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