Westerly 22 Junk + forsail, help me...

  • 11 Aug 2020 15:25
    Reply # 9157964 on 9148133

    Hi Kay-Albert,

    I have had a lot of the same issues with my Newbridge Venturer 22’, in my first season of sailing last year.  My boat is about as long as yours, bilge keel, and a bit lighter.  The sail area is a touch bigger  It has (for the moment) an old but functional Chris Scanes cambered sail.  Difficult to get it to tack in lightish winds, and windward movement was very slow and not very close - sometimes it would tack through about a 100 degrees but other times it would be 120 or more.

    This sailing season, though, things have been a good deal better.  Same boat and sail and still far from a performance boat, but sails to windward more consistently and a touch quicker.  I am not sure why!!  But, I am doing a couple of things different this year.  First, I have added a throat-hauling parrel.  This does not entirely take out the diagonal wrinkles, as intended, but it does seem to keep the sail a bit more ordered.  It sits down in the lazy jacks more neatly and sets with a better cleaner look to it.  I never haul this in as far as it can go, just use it to add a bit of tension on the end of the yard.  Second thing is I try to use the Luff hauling parrel, which in my set up is attached to the bottom 3 battens, to keep a little tension on the luff, and I keep the yard parrel relatively tight.  I have a line that can move the boom forward about 30 cms and also pulls it down a bit.  I have been not using that so much to position the boom as to keep a small tension on it.  None of these things makes a measurable difference on its own, but I have been sailing noticeably better (not a revolution, just an improvement).  Finally, I have been giving the sail a bit more sheet when close to the wind, while also keeping the sheet attachment point more to the centre or even slightly to windward.  The pictures here show my gps track through a couple of tacks my last trip out - I thought I was getting close to a 90 degree tack, the evidence suggests it’s a touch more, but the wind was light enough and I am happy to be getting better consistent results.

    Maybe the real experts might say whether any of this would make sense for your set up, or is the new jib essential- if you try the jib I’ll be very interested to hear the results.  Meanwhile I have Jami’s old sail to try, but with the shorter season has not happened yet.

    Finally, I have learnt not to sweat it if I need to switch on the engine - I am sailing for fun after all.


      






    2 files
    Last modified: 11 Aug 2020 15:34 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Aug 2020 06:20
    Reply # 9157170 on 9148133

    this is just a test of myself, because I don´t know, how to reply to the answers I have got ...

  • 10 Aug 2020 10:40
    Reply # 9155279 on 9148133

    Is this the boat that was called Fugu that was converted last year? I've been wondering how things went. I haven't progressed with converting our Westerly 22 as all my available boat time got swallowed up renovating our other boat, a local Gunter rigged open boat built around 1890. 

    Our Gunter rigged Westerly 22 had a furling headsail on a bowsprit when we bought her but I've taken it off for simplicity and just use variously sized jibs on the forestay. I think the jib is essential for getting the Westerly through a tack and from the pictures of that junk rigged Westerly it looks like there's way too much area aft. I would suggest having as small as possible a jib just to help with balance and tacking rather than constant forward driving force. The Westerly 22 is a remarkably seaworthy little boat but it's never going to be a high performance craft, I've come to accept using the outboard a bit more just to get moving and we sail when it's appropriate (force 3 and up, in the right direction!).


  • 08 Aug 2020 11:26
    Reply # 9151869 on 9148133

    Hi Kay-Albert, despite having or not having the jib with the junk rig, I want to share procedure of working around the mast. I worked it out when cruising single-handed on my 24' Anna Lucja. I do most work  in this area standing on the v-berth with hips in an open fore-hatch. I am not afraid of falling out and have both hands available for the job. My hatch opens forward. Fair winds, Kris

    Last modified: 08 Aug 2020 11:27 | Anonymous member
  • 07 Aug 2020 00:39
    Reply # 9149517 on 9148133

    Hi Kay-Albert,  I cannot see from your profile photo if your sail has camber in it or if it is cut flat, though you mention the sail is modeled after Mingming 11, which had lots of camber.  If it is flat, then a new cambered sail would probably give you much improved drive, though the limitations of your triple-keeled hull will dictate the performance to some extent.  I had a jib on Blue Moon when I bought the boat, and a flat cut mainsail.  Without the jib, the performance to windward was poor. The jib made a huge difference.  I was worried about the sideways load on the mast, though, and I hated  the flapping jib, plus the need to scramble around the cockpit adjusting the sheets.  I refused to go out onto the foredeck to pole it out downwind, so I could only broad reach with the wind aft of the beam.  I had a downhaul to pull it down onto the foredeck, which helped when I wanted to get rid of it.  You also need the forestay to clear the forward end of your yard, as you know.  So the jib will help a lot in light winds but for me it was not the solution.  I have a new cambered sail now and no jib, and am delighted with the light weather performance in a smooth sea.  It is great to get back to just one halyard and one sheet.  The jib ruined the delight of junk rig for me.  I am 68 and in poor health, so preserving every ounce of energy is important if I am to do any sailing.  If the wind is light and forward of the beam, but the sea is choppy, or I need to get to an anchorage before dark and cannot get there under sail alone, I am happy to motorsail with my outboard motor ticking over.  Junk rigs are brilliant for motorsailing. And motorsailing is a good strategy for old-timers with limited physical resources.

  • 06 Aug 2020 13:50
    Message # 9148133

    Hi everybody in the community,

    since last year, I got a westerly 22 with junk rigged. Like every junk rigged boat, the performance to downwind courses or up to an angle about maybe 60 degree, the boat is workin fine as long as there is wind (needed about 4 beaufort). But, and here is my problem..., when it comes to light wind conditions or I have to sail to windward a bit (against current / waves, the boat is a tripple keel), I really have problems to get the speed, I need for tacking / gybing. This combination createt a few unsecure situations, when I jus cannot maneuver. As you can see in my profile, the rig is designed like Roger Taylors´s Ming Ming 2, with "wholes" in the sail, whitch of course is not very sufficient for aerodinsmics, and when you just travell short distences from harbour to harbour on the baltic sess like I do (trips from 15 - 30 miles), you haven´t got the time to wait for "the right wind direction...). Well, to make it short, I am thinking about adding a "normal" forsail, triangle shaped with a reefing system (Furlex or anything else). I think, about 9 - 10 m² should do the job, but have exactly zero experience with this combination. Well, is there anebody out there, who has experience on that issue? Of course, I can sent lots of photos to explain the momentarily design and measurements of the boat. My small bowsprit (about 60 cm added to the hull) will not provide the angle I need for swinging freely the main sail while gybing, so I have to prolong the bowsprit in any way, that I know.  The sulution, tha is showed in the "Practical Junk Rig" with the boat "Pilgrim" at the end of the book, would be only the second option, because for setting an reefing the foresail, I would have to go on deck, which I normally avoid as a single - handing 57 year old man...

    Well, it´ll be great, if anyone could help me..., just contact me : ks-luebeck@web.de

    All the best

    Kay and "Djunkay"

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software