Why do we not see more junks in leisure sailing ? (Research Study)

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  • 28 May 2026 09:17
    Reply # 13636574 on 13636553
    Anonymous wrote:

    Interesting that Jan W provided an answer to the questionnaire back in 29 March 2023 when he put the question to Chat GPT. (See thread entitled  "One out of five for artificial intelligence"),

    The answer, according to Chat GPT was mostly garbage: 


    Question: Why is the junk rig not as popular as the bermudan rig?

    ChatGPT:

    There are several reasons for the junk rig not being as popular as the bermuda rig:

    1. Lack of Visibility: With a junk rig, the sails are typically mounted on a multi-masted system, which can obstruct views forward and to the sides. This can be an issue for safety reasons.

    2. Less Efficient: Compared to the bermudan rig, the junk rig has more drag, and it doesn't sail as efficiently to windward. Therefore, it's not ideal for long-distance or offshore sailing.

    3. Limited Options: The junk rig is not as versatile as the bermudan rig when it comes to different sail configurations. It is more challenging to adjust or adapt to changing conditions and different sailing styles.

    4. Unfamiliarity: Many sailors and boat designers are more familiar with the bermudan rig, making it a more popular choice.

    5. Cost: The junk rig design can be more expensive to build and maintain compared to the bermuda rig.

    Overall, the bermudan rig is a versatile, efficient, and widely recognized rig design, making it the preferred choice for many sailors and boat designers."


    I would answer the question in simpler terms: People are like sheep, they follow others. Commerce follows trends, then leads the process.



    Hi, 

    First thank you all for your answers. To be fair, I never used AI to help me to write or to search things for my mémoire (short thesis), except to ask translation for some words in chinese (btw if someone knows a glossary of ancient mandarin terms or in other chinese dialects, or some words like lazy-jack, tell me), unsuccessfully. I am not opposed at all to AI, but I wanted to not be biased, even though my "conclusions", which are closed to what you (all) think, are also closed to the LLM's ones. 

    Secondly, I do not really know who is aware of how a LLM (ChatGpt etc) is working, thus pardon me if you already know that. But on its principles it is only a text generator. Our prompts are just the beginning of a sentence which it tries to fill, like when I say 'the mouse is eaten by' it will answer 'the cat' just because it is the most probable answer given all that is stored on the internet (the dataset of training). The day you fill internet with 'the mouse is eaten by the fish, it will answer that without changing anything, there is no thinking about that (in the sense that we know). In our case, he is answering all this about the junk rig just because all the answers of the sailing forums on the internet plus maybe wikipedia and articles. So we could say the AI is very good... to reformulate and summarise what you all already said (and indeed it is exciting to see that). Of course because it a stochastic generator, sometimes it can generates rubbish.

    And for your quote on sheeps, somehow yes but this is true in almost all topics. The question is more : why the trend is like this or that.

    Edit : If nobody disagrees, in addition to my selected use of the answers, I will show everybody's answers to the questionnaire in the appendix of my mémoire, I think it is interesting to read for everyone.


    Last modified: 28 May 2026 13:08 | Anonymous member
  • 28 May 2026 07:32
    Reply # 13636563 on 13633807

    Wow, what a difference three years has made to the AI.


  • 28 May 2026 04:40
    Reply # 13636553 on 13633807
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Interesting that Jan W provided an answer to the questionnaire back in 29 March 2023 when he put the question to Chat GPT. (See thread entitled  "One out of five for artificial intelligence"),

    The answer, according to Chat GPT was mostly garbage: 


    Question: Why is the junk rig not as popular as the bermudan rig?

    ChatGPT:

    There are several reasons for the junk rig not being as popular as the bermuda rig:

    1. Lack of Visibility: With a junk rig, the sails are typically mounted on a multi-masted system, which can obstruct views forward and to the sides. This can be an issue for safety reasons.

    2. Less Efficient: Compared to the bermudan rig, the junk rig has more drag, and it doesn't sail as efficiently to windward. Therefore, it's not ideal for long-distance or offshore sailing.

    3. Limited Options: The junk rig is not as versatile as the bermudan rig when it comes to different sail configurations. It is more challenging to adjust or adapt to changing conditions and different sailing styles.

    4. Unfamiliarity: Many sailors and boat designers are more familiar with the bermudan rig, making it a more popular choice.

    5. Cost: The junk rig design can be more expensive to build and maintain compared to the bermuda rig.

    Overall, the bermudan rig is a versatile, efficient, and widely recognized rig design, making it the preferred choice for many sailors and boat designers."



    I tried the same question this morning, with Co-Pilot - result somewhat more accurate and nuanced.


    Question: Why is the junk rig not as popular as the bermudan rig?

    CoPilot:

    "The short answer: the Bermudan rig dominates because it is faster upwind, easier to industrialise, and became entrenched through racing rules and fashion, while the junk rig—though superb for cruising—never fit the performance‑oriented direction of mainstream yachting.

    Below is a structured, evidence‑based breakdown, with citations.

    Core reason: Upwind performance and speed expectations

    Modern yachting culture—especially from the late 19th century onward—prioritised upwind speed, and the Bermudan rig simply performs better in this domain.

    • Direct comparisons show Bermudan rigs are significantly faster upwind than junk rigs, even when the junk rig is modernised with cambered panels or split configurations.

    • Performance data from the Junk Rig Association confirms that a Bermudan‑rigged Varne 27 outperforms junk‑rigged boats upwind at most wind speeds.

    This single factor—superior windward ability—is the biggest reason the Bermudan rig became the default for racing and then for mainstream cruising.

    Industrialisation and standardisation

    Once the Bermudan rig became associated with racing success, it benefited from:

    • Mass production of aluminium masts and stainless rigging

    • Standardised sailmaking techniques

    • Design optimisation driven by rating rules

    Forum discussions note that its popularity was “pushed by ratings and fashion,” reinforcing a feedback loop: the more Bermudan rigs were raced, the more they were built, and the more they were perceived as “normal.”

    The junk rig, by contrast, remained a niche, largely home‑built or custom‑built system, lacking industrial momentum.

    Ease of handling vs. performance culture

    Ironically, the junk rig excels in areas that cruisers value:

    • Instant reefing

    • Low sheet loads

    • No winches required

    • Simplicity and reliability

    These advantages are well documented in modern junk‑rig literature and practice.

    But because the mainstream yachting world was shaped by racing, charter fleets, and production boatbuilders, the market rewarded performance, not ease of handling.

    Historical inertia

    The Bermudan rig’s rise in the 19th century—especially in Britain—was tied to:

    • Its proven windward ability in Bermuda’s conditions

    • Adoption by influential designers like Fife and Linton Hope

    • Its early success in small racing classes, which shaped later yacht design culture

    Once embedded, it became the default rig for naval architects, sailmakers, and insurers.

    The junk rig, despite Blondie Hasler’s revival in the 20th century, never overcame this historical momentum.

    Modern junk rigs can perform—but remain niche

    Modern innovations (cambered panels, split junk rigs, aerojunk variants) have improved performance:

    • Split junk rigs can approach Bermudan performance off the wind and sometimes exceed it in stronger breezes.

    • But even the best modern junk rigs still lag upwind compared to a well‑designed Bermudan rig.

    Thus, the junk rig appeals to a small but dedicated community—often long‑distance solo sailors—rather than the mass market."


    I would answer the question in simpler terms: People are like sheep, they follow others. Commerce follows trends, then leads the process.



  • 22 May 2026 20:47
    Reply # 13634879 on 13633807

    Filled and submitted…..

  • 22 May 2026 15:47
    Reply # 13634730 on 13633807

    I too have answered your question in your google form. I only hope that someday one of the major manufacturers starts making boats with unsupported masts. At least, it would make life easier for us ‘Junkers’!


  • 22 May 2026 10:44
    Reply # 13634654 on 13633807

    Bonne chance dans tes recherches, Guillaume.

  • 22 May 2026 10:19
    Reply # 13634650 on 13633807
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Just posting the link to Guillaume’s questionnaire again as it is now very far down the thread

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc8vQ6E-MGGqwPhoRJZc2q_BkhD2UIoSBfvjMSZ9gVI9NSN3Q/viewform?usp=sharing&ouid=118135095081593622474

  • 21 May 2026 21:47
    Reply # 13634497 on 13634483
    Anonymous wrote:
    James wrote:

    MacNaughton designs, there's an article on one in Yachting Monthly.

    https://www.yachtingworld.com/homepage/extraordinary-boats-hapenny-20-risvold-the-little-junk-rig-that-could-162979


    Fine little boat  -  with an undersize and flat sail.

    This boat will cry out to everyone that junk-rigged boats are helplessly slow...

    Arne

    You are definitely right Arne!

    Dreaming of a new bigger boat for the future, I purchased the study plans of the “blue horizons”, a beautiful 30 footer, twin keeled, McNaugthon design. The blue horizons has a single flat junk sail.
    I chatted about this and much more with Tom, the head of the company. He is an extremely kind person and experienced boat designer and for me was a pleasure and a privilege to get so much information about the boat and boat building in general. Unfortunately I was unable to convince him that a cambered sail would upgrade enormously the performance of his beautiful boats…having not much technical knowledge and experience about sail design and sail making, I suggested him to get in contact with you, Slieve or David T to have a deeper insight into this matter. Now I know that he didn’t….

    Let’s imagine how better this sturdy boats could be with a big cambered sail of yours…or a SJR or a wing sail….:)

    macnaughtongroup.com/Blue_Horizons_30.html

    Cheers 

    Mauro

    Last modified: 21 May 2026 21:48 | Anonymous member
  • 21 May 2026 21:09
    Reply # 13634483 on 13634440
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    James wrote:

    MacNaughton designs, there's an article on one in Yachting Monthly.

    https://www.yachtingworld.com/homepage/extraordinary-boats-hapenny-20-risvold-the-little-junk-rig-that-could-162979


    Fine little boat  -  with an undersize and flat sail.

    This boat will cry out to everyone that junk-rigged boats are helplessly slow...

    Arne

  • 21 May 2026 19:20
    Reply # 13634440 on 13633837
    Anonymous wrote:

    This is a very goo question Guillaume!

    Also in Italy (where I was born) and in Austria (where I live), junk rigged boats are inexistent and considered in best case as exotic, wired experiments.

    By the most yacht sailors I spoke with, a rig other than the bermuda one with shrouds and foresails seems almost not imaginable...even when the most diffuse sailboats in their own yacht clubs are cat boats with unstayed masts and single sprit sails (the Optimist) or Marconi sails (the Laser)!

    Like Paul, I've also found most comments from Bermudan sailors about this issue simply irrational.  

    Anyway, there are a lot of designers that show attraction for the JR, two examples:

    Tom McNaughton (http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/designs.htm)

    ...

    Mauro 

    Regarding the 

    MacNaughton designs, there's an article on one in Yachting Monthly.

    https://www.yachtingworld.com/homepage/extraordinary-boats-hapenny-20-risvold-the-little-junk-rig-that-could-162979

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