Van de Stadt 36 Seal - JR conversion

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  • 04 Jun 2026 04:53
    Reply # 13639208 on 13638780
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hi Thomas,

    have a look at this thread, there are some answers packed in there:

    https://junkrigassociation.org/technical_forum/13379220#13395113

    Cheers

    Paul

    Thanks Paul. An interesting read.
  • 03 Jun 2026 13:59
    Reply # 13638836 on 13638748
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Thomas wrote:

    Hi Arne, 

    That all sounds interesting. What's the history about not using larger balance on the junk rig? Was there a reason it hasn't been used in the past?

    It seems there are many advantages there, especially with a big single sail downwind.

    Thomas, my original reason for making my cambered panel sails with no more than 15% mast balance was that I was afraid that the mast might kill the performance of the sail on port tack by distorting the camber. So far, others have found mast balance of 26-28% to work fine, and now there is the question of how far one can go.


    I will certainly not push an un-tried concept on anyone. If your project were mine, I would use a version of the Johanna 60 rig, which can be rigged with anything between 22 and 28% mast balance. If one starts with 25%, there will be room for adjusting the sail’s position a little to get perfect helm balance.

    Arne


    Last modified: 03 Jun 2026 16:45 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Jun 2026 06:15
    Reply # 13638780 on 9338306

    Hi Thomas,

    have a look at this thread, there are some answers packed in there:

    https://junkrigassociation.org/technical_forum/13379220#13395113

    Cheers

    Paul

  • 03 Jun 2026 03:47
    Reply # 13638748 on 9338306

    Hi Arne, 

    That all sounds interesting. What's the history about not using larger balance on the junk rig? Was there a reason it hasn't been used in the past?

    It seems there are many advantages there, especially with a big single sail downwind.

  • 31 May 2026 18:01
    Reply # 13637642 on 13633683
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Paul Schnabel wrote:


    1. Aerodynamics tell that at about 33-35% is the position of the neutral point of an airfoil, and as such the maximum of mast balance. 

    2. If I remember correctly, Paul Thompson did already built sails with a mast balance higher than 30%. Correct me if I'm wrong.


    Slieve did a fine job using the almost maximum possible mast balance, close to the neutral point. I see no reason, from a fluiddynamic perspective, why the non-split rig shouldn't be capable of the same. (That discussion is maybe something for its own thread...)


    Cheers

    Paul

    32 % mast balance  -  could that be possible?

    I apologise to Thomas for coming up with yet another rig design.
    However, Paul’s recent suggestion that an un-split JR could be stable with up to 33-35% mast balance, had me try this one, with 32% balance.

    I have followed my Johanna style concept with seven panels of equal area and yard and battens of equal length  -  so this could be called a Johanna 50 JR!

    For the sail to be acceptable, it has to tick these boxes:

    • 1.      With a slack sheet, the sail must feather from top to bottom, both in light and strong winds.
    • 2.      The yard and battens must not have to be made overs-strong and heavy to stay straight (i.e. not bend at the mast).
    • 3.      The rig must not be noticeably slower overall to windward than present cambered junkrigs, with mast balance between 15 and 27%.
    • 4.      The ‘groove’ where the telltales fly at the leech must be reasonably wide on both tacks (as on present sails).
    • 5.      The speed and helm balance must be quite equal on both tacks.

    If it turns out that such a Johanna 50 sail ticks the boxes above, and both behaves and performs (I am sceptical), then all of a sudden some very interesting possibilities open up:

    • ·         Such a sail will be simple to design and make, using barrel-shaped panels and assembled using the ‘Amateur Method B’.
    • ·         One gets the geometrical CE closer to the CL (here 1.13m), giving easier steering downwind (as with SJR).
    • ·         Sheeting forces will be light (as with SJR).
    • ·         The 50° yard angle ensures a moderate halyard angle, and room for adjusting the sail’s position, to optimise helm balance.
    • ·         This HM-style top end makes better use of the mast length, so a bigger sail can be set on an available mast. Big is beautiful

    Summed up, this means that one can increase sail areas to 50-80sqm before one needs to consider a ketch or schooner rig. Such a big sail must still be hoisted, but there are after all winches around, even electric.

    Anyway  -  dreams are cheap...
    Arne

    (full size diagram in Arne's sketches, section 9)


    Last modified: 31 May 2026 20:55 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 May 2026 19:23
    Reply # 13635230 on 9338306

    Balance wise, from memory I felt she was well balanced, although it has hydraulic wheel steering and a big rudder so that limited the feel of any discrepancy. 

    And yes, so much information. I can't help feel I'll just end up with the scaled up SJR for Ms Murphy and just go with what has been shown to work. But it fun thinking and scheming other possible modifications.

  • 24 May 2026 19:09
    Reply # 13635229 on 9338306

    Thanks Paul, I'll look that up. 

    Arne, yes I had the boat for two years before selling it originally. Sailed it quite a bit in the Bay or Islands and up and down the coast a bit. Sailed well, if anything I always felt it needed a lot of wind to really get going, but we were living on board and had heaps of stuff. When we moved off and removed our personal things the water line went down quite a bit. Amazing how it would change even with a heavy steel boat. In saying that ,when I first got it, clean bum and little extra gear, I remember it sailing fast.

  • 24 May 2026 12:03
    Reply # 13635176 on 9338306
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thomas, I guess you are now near being saturated with ‘information’ from all corners of the world.
    I wonder; did you ever get in some sailing with the original rig? I have found it useful to sail my boats as they are, for at least one season, just to get to know the boats’ character. This makes it easier to choose a JR with the right size and CE position.
    Just a thought.

    Arne


    Last modified: 24 May 2026 12:04 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 May 2026 10:32
    Reply # 13635167 on 9338306

    Yes, it should work. My AeroJunk from 2013 is exactly that with an angled upper batten and an angled yard.  (Issue 64 shows a picture)

    Paul

  • 23 May 2026 21:21
    Reply # 13635087 on 9338306

    Thanks for that Paul, looks like it should work well for a sloop conversion which is great . 

    Am I right in thinking the high peaked yard is less ideal for the SJR as the force required to get the high peak slings the rig forward, adding stresses or requiring some means of holding the rig where you want it, parrels?

    If there was a rigid parrel in one form or another on the top horizontal batten, it could allow the high peak (more sail per mast length) but allow the rest of the rig to hang happily from a fixed batten length. 

    I feel a hybrid (word of the year?) between Arne high peak, Slieve SJR and elements of Paul's Aerorig would be interesting. High peaked top with camber, flat cut main with wishbone battens and SJR jibblets. I wonder it it would work? Thoughts? I think Paul Mckay had a similar idea but with origami jibblets.

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