Galley stove/ovens

  • 22 May 2016 17:03
    Reply # 4033572 on 4033536
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    David,
    thanks for a most interesting line of photos of the Maxie burner. A very clever device, indeed. So the thin jet of evaporated alcohol just drags enough air with it into the bigger hole of the burner to get «lean» burning?!

    Yes. I should have said that the 10mm hole is actually a short length of tube.

    PS: Can the Maxie be set to low heat without misbehaving?

     Yes. I can bring a pan to the boil, and then turn the burner down to simmering heat without misbehaving - unlike a pressure kero burner, that will choke with carbon if the heat is too low, there is no tiny jet to block up. The only misbehaviour I found in three or four years of full-time use is that when the burner is getting old, the flame holes become enlarged, and then you can get a backfire and hear the combustion going on within the chamber.


  • 22 May 2016 16:04
    Reply # 4033536 on 1195343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,
    thanks for a most interesting line of photos of the Maxie burner. A very clever device, indeed. So the thin jet of evaporated alcohol just drags enough air with it into the bigger hole of the burner to get «lean» burning?!

    As for the sensitivity to the height of the tank; I guess many such burners could have used a float chamber regulator as used in most carburettors, and on the Reflex diesel heater. My needle valve-controlled Taylor diesel heater (in Malena and Johanna) was always tricky to make run at a constant setting. A friend of mine had the same heater. When he added a regulator from Reflex, the problem was solved.

    Today I had a quick trip (through the rain) to check Ingeborg’s Origo 3000 stove. I had recently filled up both canisters with the cheapest denatured alcohol I could get. At full pelt, it now burned with a yellowish flame, indicating rich mixture and/or incomplete combustion (..if I got it right...). If I turned down the heat a little, the flame again went invisible. I then measured up 0.5 litre of water (about +10°C) and found that it took just over 5 minutes to bring it to boil. That is good enough for me. One fine thing with it, is that it can be set to very low heat for as long as you like without it protesting. I haven’t tried it for making bacon yet. Time will show.

    Arne

     
    Ingeborg's Origo 3000

    PS: Can the Maxie be set to low heat without misbehaving?

     

    Last modified: 22 May 2016 17:26 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 22 May 2016 08:32
    Reply # 4032754 on 1195343

    When I ordered the knob, I hadn't realised that it was made of thermoplastic. I've now ordered a phenolic resin (thermoset) knob with grubscrew fastening, which should be fine.

    Gimbal in two axes? It's enough work to gimbal in one! And the second isn't really necessary.

    The needle valve is no longer leaking with the tank at high level, so either it's bedded in, or a foreign body has been flushed through. Nevertheless, 12cm head of pressure is plenty to make the burner work at maximum output.

  • 21 May 2016 20:45
    Reply # 4032352 on 1195343

    Interesting stuff David.  

    I wonder if you might be overheating the burner and that is the reason for softening the knob?  Most of the single burner stoves I've used allow more airflow to the burner.  For a replacement knob, I ordered some bakelite ones from ebay that seemed to work well enough with the Origo we had. I think bakelite has a continuous working temp around 120 C.

    I think lead on the bottom is a good idea.  We used a Force 10 Seacook stove for years aboard our Hurley 20.  The low slung propane tank and high mounting point for the gimbals was enough to keep it stable with any reasonably sized pot on top of it.  Too bad the pot is teflon lined, otherwise you could use it as a mold to cast a lead brick to attach to the bottom of the pot.  Incidentally, since you are making a one-burner stove, why not gimbal it in two axes like the Force 10 Seacook?

    It is a bit alarming that the needle valve is so poor that it can't withstand more than a few inches of pressure head.  I wonder if you could use some valve lapping compound to improve the mating surfaces?  It would be interesting to experiment with the turbo-charged Maxi you describe by raising the tank a little bit.

    Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment.

  • 21 May 2016 19:07
    Reply # 4032271 on 1195343

    By this morning, all the components had arrived, so I rolled up my sleeves, went to the workbench and built myself a cooker. The result is in my photo album.

    By the end of the afternoon, it was ready for trials, and I cooked my first meal on it.

    Problems:

    The gimballing is not very good. Although the pivots are 6cm above the pan supports, so that they are near the free surface of the liquid in the pan, the centre of gravity of the whole assemblage is still not far enough below the pan, and the cooker is not heavy enough. This shows up in a way that I hadn't anticipated: A pan with a heavy handle, like my Kuhn Rikon pressure cooker, has its CG quite far out from the centre of the pan itself. The cooker will tilt, under this influence, and the pan will slide to one side, increasing the effect. Even my kettle, which is symmetrical and has no handle out to one side, will cause the cooker to tilt if it is not exactly central, even though it can move only 1cm. The only cure would seem to be a large lump of lead bonded to the bottom of the cooker.

    The tank cannot be much higher than the built-in tank in the Maxie cooker, or the needle valve cannot close off the flow completely. It cannot be particularly well made. If the tank was higher, there was a fiercer flame than I thought was good for for the burner.

    The knob softened in the heat transmitted along the spindle, and would not turn the spindle at the end of cooking. I was glad of the on/off valve near the tank. I will have to find a more heat-resistant knob.

    All in all, though, I think the concept is viable. At least I have a cooker that is safe enough, is easy to light and adjust, is fast, is easy to refill and will retain a pan in a rough sea.

  • 21 May 2016 08:48
    Reply # 4031739 on 1195343

    Here's a site that has some excellent descriptions of assembly and use of the Butterfly A-822 , the gravity feed Butterfly 2418 and some general advice on "wickless" gravity feed kero stoves.

    There's enough here to put you off these stoves for marine use, if you read through carefully and critically! 

    For example, the 822 has 22 wicks, as its name implies, all of which must be kept trimmed to equal heights, and all of which must be lit. The tank appears to be an open bowl, with the wick holder just resting on top.

    The 2418 is described as being very definitely for operation in a stable environment only.

    They both have the kind of "chimney" with which I'm familiar, which consists of two concentric cylinders of perforated steel, which direct jets of air into the rising flow of kero vapour, surrounded by a further concentric unperforated cylinder as a heat shield. There's no reason why this can't all be made from stainless steel. But there are too many disadvantages - cooking with these stoves is bound to be dirtier and smellier than with a pressure kero stove. 

    PS the British equivalent to the above Miles Stair site is http://www.base-camp.co.uk/ - both very useful resources.

    Last modified: 21 May 2016 09:01 | Anonymous member
  • 21 May 2016 00:55
    Reply # 4031273 on 4027932
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:

    The problems are fivefold, I think:

    • I don't know of a model that's made from marine grade non-corrodible materials, that would last long enough to be worth installing.
    • I don't know of a model that is able to work in a heeling, rolling, pitching boat. They all have loose parts and rely on being in a static environment.
    • They are tall - there's the tank, then the burner, then the flame modifying device that makes it burn hot and clean.
    • At the beginning and end of burning, there's always some part-burnt fuel and vapour released. You would have to live with darkened paint around the galley.
    • When not in use, there's always a small amount of evaporation of fuel. The cabin - and you - would smell of kero.
    Everything can be fixed, if you are a skilled sheet metalworker and can design and make your own cooker, but I don't know of any commercial model of marine wick-burner cooker having been made.
    This is good information.  There is an aluminum model, the Butterfly A822 14k BTU 22-Wick Kerosene Aluminum Cook Stove which I think would address #1.  I do have a brother that is semi-retired and is a skilled sheet metal worker that can make just about anything out of metal.  Maybe we need to come up with a cooker design similar to what was done with SibLim that would meet our needs.  I like the simplicity of the Origo but find the fuel difficult.  I like kerosene but find the Taylor stoves expensive to buy and maintain.  Maybe the Maxie is the answer and maybe it is not as fussy about the quality of alcohol but I am not sure how I would ever get to see one in the United States.
  • 20 May 2016 13:38
    Reply # 4030607 on 4029261
    Scott Dufour wrote:

    Is there anyway to view the Maxie 2 Burner here in the United States?

    I think it unlikely that you'll find a real one to look at in the Eastern States. the best I can offer is these photos.
    Last modified: 20 May 2016 13:38 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2016 06:45
    Reply # 4030170 on 1195343

    I've solved the problem of finding a gravity feed tank for an alcohol cooker. First, I asked Tek-Tanks for a quotation for a custom tank. Let's just say that the price was more than an entire Origo Two. I declined to proceed.

    So off I went to eBay, and found that there is a gravity feed fuel tank intended for use when working on a motorcycle engine with the fuel tank removed for easier access - the 1 litre Sealey MS029 tank. It's widely available at under £17, including a hose, on/off valve and hose tail.

  • 19 May 2016 19:36
    Reply # 4029404 on 1195343

    My new Maxie burner arrived yesterday, courtesy of my daughter in Sydney, and I've made an album which I'll devote to photos of the cooker I intend to build around it.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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