PANGO updated Rig - a few vids under sail from yesterday

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  • 27 Apr 2022 04:15
    Reply # 12755484 on 12735654
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul: I've tried to make Pango an easy to sail and operate boat and sometimes we spent a bit of money on the more modern options.

    Understood. Actually, you have done a great job. Zane is in good hands.

  • 27 Apr 2022 01:24
    Reply # 12754908 on 12742588
    PS and how about you or Annie giving us a couple of good recipes for bean stew. Missionary and puha gets a bit boring, night after night, eh.

    (click on image)

    null

    Can do but I think we should start a new thread for this.
  • 27 Apr 2022 01:23
    Reply # 12754907 on 12742733

    What I wonder about when watching Pango sailing is the number of purchase on the sheet  -  six if I counted right. That must lead to quite some friction and an awful lot of spaghetti in the cockpit? I have tried as much as 5-part on the 48sqm sail of Johanna, but soon reduced to 3-part. I may need to swing the sheet winch (single speed) from time to time if we are sailing rail down (..or luff up a little to offload the sheet...), but on the other hand, the sail will swing out in the lightest breeze.

    For Ingeborg's halyard I use 5-part purchase and high quality ball-bearing blocks from Seldén. The sail goes up and comes down just fine. All that rope is stuffed in a bag.

    Pango’s sail surely looks great, and the contrasting colours are really educational...

    Cheers, Arne


    It's a 4 part sheet with strong anti twist and a small Dmin. Not my invention, the Vietnamese use it on their junks.

  • 27 Apr 2022 01:20
    Reply # 12754891 on 12742675
    I was a bit surprised when watching the videos of Pango sailing to see the battery of rope clutches. Rope clutches are good, as are ball bearing blocks, but as Graeme has said they certainly add cost, and on a boat the size of Pango start leading away from the whole idea of a junk rig being a low cost alternative. 
    Nowhere have I or Zane for that matter said we were trying to do a "low cost alternative" nor is there any law that says a junk rig needs to be low cost. Some of us just want a sensibly specified rig that does the job.
  • 26 Apr 2022 23:58
    Reply # 12754562 on 12735654

    Rope clutches are effectively another hand when single handing and have their place. Especially when hauling on a loaded line like the halyard where the clutch will take  the load while you reach forward for the next bit of halyard. They are a bit of a luxury for the parrels but do earn their keep on the halyard and the sheet.

    As for rope clutches, like every thing there are good quality ones and not so good quality ones. The Lewmar ones are the best in the business, better than Spinlock in my opinion. Lessor ones have more friction and can chew the line. Note that a clutch is not the same as a jammer. A clutch can release a line gradually while under load, A jammer must have the load taken off before you can free it.

    I've used Garhauer ball bearing blocks extensively in the past and they are a good reasonably priced block. However you need to be careful where you use them as being all stainless steel, they have a tendency to beat up their surroundings. Nowadays I mostly spec Seldon or Rutgerson plain bearing blocks. They are really good and there is very little difference in friction between them and a ball bearing block.

    While you can do junk rigs in a low cost manner, not all of us necessarily want to rig our boats in such a manner. Some of us like a few of the modern conveniences.... Pango is a well executed and thought out boat. However keeping down costs where there were better options available was not part of the spec.

    I've tried to make Pango an easy to sail and operate boat and sometimes we spent a bit of money on the more modern options. So she has high quality Solbian solar panels, a carbon fibre mast, an electric anchor winch, decent blocks and dare we say it! Lewmar DB1 rope clutches...

    Last modified: 27 Apr 2022 05:25 | Anonymous member
  • 26 Apr 2022 16:51
    Reply # 12752922 on 12735654

    "I think other people might be interested if you were to expand a little on the eyelet/batten lacing system you put on Pango’s sail – and your lazyjack spiderweb which looks pretty interesting as it is a departure from the type of sail-gatherer I have seen on some of your other sails."

    There's good detail about 1min 20sec into the video on Pango being rigged

    https://youtu.be/ESZCf1l2kNs

    Cheapo polyester line with a bit of give or pricey non-stretch dyneema or something in-between? How many layers of cloth/reinforcement at the eyelets?

  • 25 Apr 2022 20:31
    Reply # 12746556 on 12742891
    Zane wrote:


    As to moving onto the new project, David, well...I am just not so sure anymore.  It was a bit of an impulse buy was the Twister.  It certainly will be a more comfortable boat all round, and possibly a better sea boat -- but I am starting to wonder if I really want to go through it all again, both the refurbishment of the boat and the conversion to junk rig. As far as refitting boats - right now, I am mentally shot. I may feel different in the future. The time, energy, and finance needed to refit an old 70's plastic classic boat properly and convert it to junk rig is enormous.  If I have only so much money in the bank in five years, and it's a choice to work another five years on top of that to pay for the Twister refurbishment - then I may just say, stuff it, I will keep my money and go sailing in Pango full time.  I'm lucky that I can keep the Twister on hardstand for only the cost of the cradle rental per month, which is a nominal fee.  

    For now, Pango certainly owes me some good sailing time.  


    These are indeed important things to consider. You have put a lot of time and effort into Pango, and although smaller than what would be the the ideal cruising yacht for you, it seems that you have a very well equipped and strong boat with a good quality junk conversion, so probably time to enjoy her. This is a dilemma I have been mulling over recently. As you know I have been looking at boat options. There is a boat for sale which has tempted me for several years but at $130k way more money than I want to spend. Now the owners want it sold and the price has been very considerably reduced, so tempting! But that would take most of my spare ready cash and I don't want to touch my investments, and would also mean that I would be committed to working for at least several more years. Then I think about the fun we have had on the little catamaran this summer past, and all it has done for us for the very small amount of money invested, so I think is it worth all the effort to change to the dream boat when what we have got is a great little and well set up boat, and the work is done? I just need to enjoy her without all the additional financial burden of the bigger boat.

    It must be human nature to want bigger and better. It the same think as the house situation and unaffordable housing. I look at the monstrous houses being built around Auckland and think - Do people really need such large houses with all the gizmos including big screen TVs. Surely better to go small, even to a tiny house and enjoy life. It should not be about quantity, but more about quality, and having fun in these short life spans we humans are given.

    Last modified: 25 Apr 2022 20:41 | Anonymous member
  • 25 Apr 2022 11:48
    Reply # 12742891 on 12735654

    This is a great discussion and I am enjoying the various views.

    I had no clutches on my previous boat, Partisan (the JOG racer/cruiser), and I found it a pain to control the lines - so it was me whom said to Paul a few years ago that this time, on Pango, "I want clutches".  
    I then by mistake ordered the wrong ones, and simply replaced them this time for the cheaper and better suited Garhauer DC1 version.

    I don't have enough experience to understand the different way you can lead the mainsheet and why one way might be better than another.  I'm quickly understanding there seems to be several ways to do this, as mentioned in this thread.

    So again, I found this interesting, and will see how we go with the current set up. I've only been on one day sail under the new set up, so I will reserve judgement, and see how we go.  Paul is pretty confident he has the rig set up right, maybe with a few minor tweaks to come -- I am of a level with my familiarity with junk rig that at this stage of my development I have to trust that my rig designer knows what he is doing - but that doesn't mean I am not interested in alternative views or ideas, and I know Paul is also a bloke that can accept there is more than one way to skin a cat if he finds some other idea works better.

    As to moving onto the new project, David, well...I am just not so sure anymore.  It was a bit of an impulse buy was the Twister.  It certainly will be a more comfortable boat all round, and possibly a better sea boat -- but I am starting to wonder if I really want to go through it all again, both the refurbishment of the boat and the conversion to junk rig. As far as refitting boats - right now, I am mentally shot. I may feel different in the future. The time, energy, and finance needed to refit an old 70's plastic classic boat properly and convert it to junk rig is enormous.  If I have only so much money in the bank in five years, and it's a choice to work another five years on top of that to pay for the Twister refurbishment - then I may just say, stuff it, I will keep my money and go sailing in Pango full time.  I'm lucky that I can keep the Twister on hardstand for only the cost of the cradle rental per month, which is a nominal fee.  

    For now, Pango certainly owes me some good sailing time.  




  • 25 Apr 2022 10:10
    Reply # 12742733 on 12735654
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    The only reason why I use a couple of rope clutches, is that the boat came with a few of them already. The former owner was preparing for leading (Bermudan rig) halyards and stuff back to the cockpit. I use them for the YHP and THP.

    What I wonder about when watching Pango sailing is the number of purchase on the sheet  -  six if I counted right. That must lead to quite some friction and an awful lot of spaghetti in the cockpit? I have tried as much as 5-part on the 48sqm sail of Johanna, but soon reduced to 3-part. I may need to swing the sheet winch (single speed) from time to time if we are sailing rail down (..or luff up a little to offload the sheet...), but on the other hand, the sail will swing out in the lightest breeze.

    For Ingeborg's halyard I use 5-part purchase and high quality ball-bearing blocks from Seldén. The sail goes up and comes down just fine. All that rope is stuffed in a bag.

    Pango’s sail surely looks great, and the contrasting colours are really educational...

    Cheers, Arne


    Last modified: 25 Apr 2022 14:39 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 25 Apr 2022 06:58
    Reply # 12742675 on 12742588
    Graeme wrote:


    Hmphhhhh!  Three extra ball bearing blocks, for no advantage to Pango as far as I can see, add more than a little to the chandlery bill.

    Speaking of which, you are probably right about my confusion regarding that clutch thingamajiggy. I wouldn't know, I usually try to avoid things with names like "Lewmar DB1".     The Mk 1 cleat will do me.



    I was a bit surprised when watching the videos of Pango sailing to see the battery of rope clutches. Rope clutches are good, as are ball bearing blocks, but as Graeme has said they certainly add cost, and on a boat the size of Pango start leading away from the whole idea of a junk rig being a low cost alternative. I did fit a rope clutch to the main halyard on Footprints, but it came from the Garhauer clearance bin, but it worked well. When setting up my little catamaran I thought about rope clutches for the halyards and jib sheet, but when I priced them out I thought no, the cost is not justified. But I confess that I now have a whole row of 5 rope clutches. I was going through my box of boat bits one day near the end of the construction of the catamaran, and there at the bottom were a whole bunch of rope clutches. I had forgotten that David Tyler gave them to me when he removed the mizzen mast from Tystie while in New Zealand. They are the English Barton clutches and have done a great many sailing miles. Any way I cleaned off all the corrosion, sprayed some CRC, added a bit of Hammerite paint to tidy them up a bit and bolted them to the cabin top. They work just fine and are very convenient, but also show you do not need the Rolls Royces of rope clutches. So apart from those rope clutches which were free, my other sail control lines all terminate at plastic jam cleats and plastic horn cleats, which cost very little and work very well for the job they do.

    Great though to see Pango sailing. I hope Zane gets to enjoy here after the years of work, and before going on to his new project.

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