Freedom 40 Cat Ketch Junk Rig Conversion

  • 20 Dec 2017 15:39
    Reply # 5643915 on 5643870
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:
    Phil Brown wrote:

    The mast lift is very a very simple, useful line. Not sure why you would want to go without it, You would then need to add a batten parrell on the boom, along with that lazy jack line going forward of the mast? 

    I don't use a separate mast lift; this is a case where simpler is not necessarily better. I use two lines, port and starboard, which are attached to the topping lifts halfway up. Bear in mind, Phil, that Erik is making sails along the lines of Weaverbird's, and the requirements are slightly different from other sail types. The yard is short and the AR is high, and this means that the topping lifts really need to be hauled forward rather than go straight to the masthead, to make it less likely that the peak of the yard will get the wrong side of them. In fact, maybe it wouldn't hurt to adopt this plan on other sails, for that reason. 

    The way that a single mast lift squeezes the sail against the mast when sailing reefed is a cause of chafe on long rough passages. For larger offshore rigs, I  have found it better to adopt the separate mast lift(s) and batten parrel here, though the single mast lift with a bowline around the mast remains perfectly adequate for smaller inshore boats.


    David,

    Thank you for the explanation!


  • 20 Dec 2017 15:17
    Reply # 5643870 on 5643800
    Phil Brown wrote:

    The mast lift is very a very simple, useful line. Not sure why you would want to go without it, You would then need to add a batten parrell on the boom, along with that lazy jack line going forward of the mast? 

    I don't use a separate mast lift; this is a case where simpler is not necessarily better. I use two lines, port and starboard, which are attached to the topping lifts halfway up. Bear in mind, Phil, that Erik is making sails along the lines of Weaverbird's, and the requirements are slightly different from other sail types. The yard is short and the AR is high, and this means that the topping lifts really need to be hauled forward rather than go straight to the masthead, to make it less likely that the peak of the yard will get the wrong side of them. In fact, maybe it wouldn't hurt to adopt this plan on other sails, for that reason. 

    The way that a single mast lift squeezes the sail against the mast when sailing reefed is a cause of chafe on long rough passages. For larger offshore rigs, I  have found it better to adopt the separate mast lift(s) and batten parrel here, though the single mast lift with a bowline around the mast remains perfectly adequate for smaller inshore boats.

  • 20 Dec 2017 14:59
    Reply # 5643800 on 1424184
    Deleted user

    I've been thinking that nylon webbing has a lot of stretch for batten parrells and have seen polyester with very low % of stretch.  I started with sta-set rope I had on hand planning to change to polyester webbing but my sail is not large and inertia can be. 

    The mast lift is a very simple, useful line. Not sure why you would want to go without it, You would then need to add a batten parrell on the boom, along with that lazy jack line going forward of the mast? 

    Last modified: 20 Dec 2017 15:32 | Deleted user
  • 20 Dec 2017 12:03
    Reply # 5643616 on 1424184

    What and where from are the neat-looking batten caps, please?

  • 20 Dec 2017 09:19
    Reply # 5643544 on 1424184

    Erik,

    Please could you say what percentage area of cloth you used, over and above the designed area of the sail? That is, designed area + % extra for pockets, tablings etc + 10% wastage = ? This may help others to work out how much cloth to buy.

    Regarding the batten parrels and the YHP: I wouldn't try to invent fancy schemes for getting them to tighten up automatically at this stage (been there, done that). Just rig standard YHP and LHP and fixed batten parrels, while you find out what the sail actually needs. Theoretical solutions rarely survive being taken to sea. So far, there are two sails to the weaverbird planform sailing, and each has needed a slightly different arrangement of the LHP. Size and weight have an effect that needs determining in practical sailing trials.

    Last modified: 20 Dec 2017 16:53 | Anonymous member
  • 19 Dec 2017 22:11
    Reply # 5643030 on 1424184

    Stardate 111712.18 - Completion of the first junk rig sail for Raven.  This unknown territory, far at the edge of the known sailing world, has only been traveled by a few souls - brave or foolish -we will soon find out.  

    • The sail weighs in at 18 kg.  
    • Based on weight, the cloth wastage was around 10%.  
    • Battens and yard may add another 32 kg or so.
    • Based on having hauled the gf to the top of mast a couple of times, at least a 2x1 halyard will be necessary, although I do understand the advantages of a 3x1.
    • Some details of the flat batten pockets and the webbing to support the battens and outhaul.  Also the batten end caps where the outhaul, sheetlets, and batten parallels will be attached.  I am using a 12mm AL tube as a dog bone in conjunction with some 2mm dyneema to fix the aft end of the batten to the sail. The webbing simply loops around the dog bone, and as long as there is tension on the batten pocket it all seems quite secure.  The forward end will have 'running' lashing to tension the pocket.  Not sure if I will use dyneema since it doesn't hold a knot so well.  
    • The plan is to use webbing for batten parallels, fixed onto the batten ends caps with a small spectra loop and aft of the mast again with some lashing.  Not sure how I will fasten the parallel to the batten but likely some complicated and ridiculous way using my ClampTite tool since this is what I bought it for.   Fotos to follow.  

    Comments on any of the above, and some questions below.  I appreciated any and all thoughts:

    • Since my masts are taller than necessary - the top of the fore mast is probably 3.5 to 4 meters above the sling point - I need to figure out a temporary and more permanent attachment point for the halyard, lazy jacks and other possible lines that need to go up the mast and back down.  Thoughts...  Down the road I am willing to make a permanent collar and even further down the road, cut the masts.
    • Lazy Jacks - probably most critical to getting the sails onto the boat - besides getting the  old sail and wishbone boom off -  is the lazy jack setup.  I have a boom sleeve and attached three webbing loops - one at each end and one in the center, to facilitate flexibility in the lazy jack position.  I would like to do without a mast lift, and if possible have the lazy jacks support the front of the sail.  I am considering webbing for the lower portion of the lazy jacks, or a sail catcher if it makes more sense given the size of the sail and panels. 
    • Batten Parallel Webbing - what material to use.  Nylon webbing - tubular is really soft and is the easiest to find but also has a UV limited life.  Spectra is available, more expensive, and probably slides the best.  Polyester webbing is out there, too.
    • Speaking of batten parallels - is it worth worrying about the upper BPs that will have slack in them when fully hoisted due to mast taper.  All the parallels have to fit around the bottom of the mast, which in my case is 25 cm.  But the upper BPs will then be (rather?) loose when hoisted due to the smaller upper mast diameter - which is more like 15 cm. One thought I had was to run the batten end of the BP through a friction ring or spectra loop and then have it be the batten end attachment point of the LHP.  The slack in the BP would be removed  with the LHP, but be slack when hoisting or dropping.  
    • In a similar fashion, could the yard hauling parallel be connected to the halyard, such that tension on the halyard also tops the yard.  The necessary force could be controlled with the amount of purchase on the line (if sufficient, a 2x1 would assure that the yard is topped first as the halyard tension.  The amount of travel may need to be limited and thus the yard would be "topped" more at the larger larger mast diameter at the bottom of the mast than when fully hoisted.  I imagine that the loop around the mast could cause a fair amount of  friction while hoisting but maybe a line loaded with roller balls would let it rise more easily.  
    Erik
  • 17 Dec 2017 00:00
    Reply # 5631047 on 1424184

    Yep, Erik is doing what I had hoped to, and is a year ahead of me in schedule and many times ahead of me in 3D drafting.  I must have done something right in a previous life, as borrowing from your and Eric's work will save me a bunch of time (which I need as the refit of Leeway is taking much longer than I had hoped).

    Last modified: 17 Dec 2017 00:27 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Dec 2017 18:33
    Reply # 5630853 on 5630737
    Darren Bos wrote:

    Thanks for sharing Erik, it's very inspirational.  

    Some ready-made sail designs for you, Darren?
  • 16 Dec 2017 15:38
    Reply # 5630737 on 1424184

    Thanks for sharing Erik, it's very inspirational.  

  • 15 Dec 2017 22:18
    Reply # 5630227 on 1424184

    Looking at your photos and images, the design and planning of the sail is good, and the setup of your sewing area is good - what could possibly go wrong?

    Working in a confined area, it's quite possible to sew things together upside down or back to front - I know, I've done it. But fingers crossed on that one, I'm sure it's going to turn out well because you've put in the time to think it all through.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the puckering, it doesn't seem too severe in the photo. I find that there's always a slight shrinkage in length along a seam after sewing, whatever the material, so there must always be a bit of puckering.

    Last modified: 15 Dec 2017 22:19 | Anonymous member
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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