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Cash prize of 250 GBP - Dinghy Design Competition

  • 08 Apr 2021 02:58
    Reply # 10285490 on 10284854
    Anonymous wrote:

    The hull shape is a little more sophisticated than I think is warranted for such a small boat, though the way you have developed the panels, you will have eliminated much of the difficulty for a builder, so maybe it will not be too difficult to build one. Its key feature and virtue is that midship section and the way it responds to increase in weight.

    Having built a 4 plank dingy of almost the same shape, I would say this one is easier.

    My main criticism is the bow board. No-one else has so far commented on this - maybe it is "the elephant in the room"? This bow board seems to me to be innovation for innovation's sake. I am sure it will work - but why? Perhaps I am striking too soon, before seeing the detail of how it is to be mounted and deployed.

    I am also (I some how said alsa must be linuxing too much) unsure how that would work (I am assuming it would work at least if not how).

    Perhaps in the "half up" position (if it has one) it would give an increase in the waterline length?

    While I have heard the assertion that a rudder increases hull speed before, water line length might properly be called buoyancy length as it seems to be governed by the buoyancy at the ends of the boat. bulbous bows are wider, under water and design for one speed only. I do not think a bow board would allow the bow to drop behind the wave created by the bow board. (googling bow board shows a place for hanging hair bows or a place for building archery bows)

    I was however, looking at Theory for Daggerboard navigation about steering with no swingable rudder but rather adding and removing dagger boards

    Anyway, as I have already built a hull, the rig is what is important to me. I have happily not yet made the DB trunk or mast step/partner and so have a clean sheet (the paper kind) on placement.


  • 07 Apr 2021 22:34
    Reply # 10284854 on 10211344
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Arne, congratulations on persevering with the dinghy design. I think your little vessel is a thing of beauty, and I anticipate that your rig might prove to be a landmark innovation in junk rig development for small craft.

    I have some criticism though.

    The hull shape is a little more sophisticated than I think is warranted for such a small boat, though the way you have developed the panels, you will have eliminated much of the difficulty for a builder, so maybe it will not be too difficult to build one. Its key feature and virtue is that midship section and the way it responds to increase in weight.

    My main criticism is the bow board. No-one else has so far commented on this - maybe it is "the elephant in the room"? This bow board seems to me to be innovation for innovation's sake. I am sure it will work - but why? Perhaps I am striking too soon, before seeing the detail of how it is to be mounted and deployed.

    Perhaps in the "half up" position (if it has one) it would give an increase in the waterline length?  It seems to me that this bow board will be practical in only a very limited type of coastline - and considering that almost all dinghy tenders (outside of marina use) will need to take shelving beaches or shallow water for most of their working lives, I would like to suggest that you make an alternative conventional version available as part of your design package. 

    Another thing, I can't see the bow board contributing much to directional stability, to put it mildly. It will need to be pretty accurately and firmly mounted, or it will take charge. (My old scow had a board which was floppy in its case, and when motoring or not hard on the wind, every time it flip-flopped the boat would want to take a sheer in a different direction - needed constant attention at the helm!)

    If reverting to oars, I imagine it will need to be fully up. It will probably have too much windage to have an "up position" and I can not see it being especially easy to reach forward over the bow to retrieve it  (and then have to stow it somewhere). 

    Perhaps if it were mounted inside the bow, the case could be an internal part of the structure of the forward buoyancy tank, so that the board can swing up and remain out of the way - or, if a dagger, be accessible from the sitting position inside the dinghy, to be pulled up a bit, quickly, when (not if) it strikes the mud or sand. 

    I am not qualified to comment on leeboards and their variants, never having used one, but can't help wondering if this dinghy, with its conveniently vertical topsides, is asking for a "clip on" external swinging off-centreboard, which can be left in place, or removed at will.  (I mean fore-and-aft swinging, not the conventional "broken wing" swing-out of the true leeboard.)

    I think the "sausage fender" is very well suited to a dinghy which is narrow in the beam, or a little tender (the adjective). However, on this beamy little boat it might not be quite so necessary and will not add anything to its looks. Good safety compromise though, for a sailing dinghy which does not have built-in side buoyancy.

    Of course, the client must have the last say on all these matters. As for myself - I take my hat off and thank you for for putting forward such a courageous,  imaginative and delightful creation. I am looking forward to the next iteration.

    PS Also hoping David will progress his thinking, at least to the "proposal" stage. Much as I like the "pre lim" - it would be good to have a "san ban" also for consideration, as I still think "three planks" is good enough for such a small dinghy.


    pps another afterthought: a side-mounted board would perhaps have to be too far aft and not suit the rig. The more I think about it, if the reason for the bow board is to keep this appendage out of the dinghy and out of the way, a centreboard case right in the bow, while complicating the structure a little, would make sense to me, especially  if the board can swing up into it without needing attention. There is a buoyancy tank there anyway, so not much internal space is lost if the board and its case are cleverly shaped, the case fitting into the tank and under that forward thwart. The little bow board could stay permanently in its case, and just swing out when sailing, the rest of the time out of sight and out of mind. I don't think it needs to be so deep either. Well, that's just my opinion


    Last modified: 08 Apr 2021 07:11 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 07 Apr 2021 19:27
    Reply # 10284349 on 10211344
    Anonymous member (Administrator)



    Layout and sailplan for Halibut (ver. B)

    Here is the (sail-friendly) version B of the Halibut, shown with thwarts, oarlocks and rig. I have made the cockpit longer by reducing the buoyancy tanks at the ends a little. I suggest sticking 50mm thick foam to the topsides instead. I also have an idea of tying a row of fenders to the gunwale, and preferably first sew these into ‘a sausage’ of canvas. This will have three purposes:

    • ·         Fenders
    • ·         Sprayrails
    • ·         Added buoyancy

    The diameter of the fenders could be anything from 50 to 150mm. Personally, I would aim for around 80mm if available.

    In addition, I have sketched on a rudder and a bow-board. The bow-board can be constructed in seventy-two ways. Not sure which version to go for, but all versions will have some sort of wooden peg or weak link to let the board break free, in case of running aground.

    Cheers,
    Arne


  • 06 Apr 2021 12:10
    Reply # 10278679 on 10277848
    Anonymous wrote:
    Gary wrote:

    Well Arne's rig has caught my interest. I'm looking for a JR to put on my Bolger Cartopper. Though 5 sq m would be better. I did draw up something but i think I lost it in a tidy up.

    Gary, if you multiply Arne's dimensions by 1.5, so that the battens become 3m long, the area works out at 5.7sqm which would be quite a good size for your dinghy, I think.
    Thanks David. 
  • 06 Apr 2021 08:00
    Reply # 10277848 on 10276602
    Gary wrote:

    Well Arne's rig has caught my interest. I'm looking for a JR to put on my Bolger Cartopper. Though 5 sq m would be better. I did draw up something but i think I lost it in a tidy up.

    Gary, if you multiply Arne's dimensions by 1.5, so that the battens become 3m long, the area works out at 5.7sqm which would be quite a good size for your dinghy, I think.
  • 06 Apr 2021 07:47
    Reply # 10277808 on 10273994
    What we lacked was a JR that was a good match with a yacht's tender. We no longer lack that rig. Arne should be declared the winner by acclamation.

    Hear, hear. The Halibut rig is a major step forward, again demonstrating Arne's ability to think sideways. The bowboard concept is new to me too, further widening my education. 

  • 06 Apr 2021 00:35
    Reply # 10276602 on 10211344

    Well Arne's rig has caught my interest. I'm looking for a JR to put on my Bolger Cartopper. Though 5 sq m would be better. I did draw up something but i think I lost it in a tidy up.

  • 05 Apr 2021 17:36
    Reply # 10275241 on 10211344
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Since it appears that there is more interest in Halibut’s JR than the hull, I now drew up the sail more in detail. I guess I will write a little text around it, as well, and thus make a complete little write-up.
    For now, I just let you have the diagrams.

    Arne


    (Arne's sketches section 5, photo 20-22)

    Last modified: 20 Mar 2023 10:18 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 05 Apr 2021 13:34
    Reply # 10274569 on 10274410
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David Tyler wrote:

    I would prefer to design a dinghy because a 'client' has approached me with a specific list of requirements and told me that there is no existing design that satisfies them. But yes, first we have to learn how to design dinghies.


    Yes,

    but in my case I am the ‘client’. Good, lightweight tenders are not to be found here, so one has to build something. One tender I had (looking like a scaled-down speedboat) was so bad (.. it was a trap...) that when a fellow asked me to borrow it for the weekend, I said yes on the condition that he promised to sink that thing on deep water after use. He made big eyes when hearing my request, but sure enough, after having ’enjoyed’ it, he understood, and he sank it.

    Arne


    Last modified: 19 Feb 2022 23:40 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 05 Apr 2021 13:02
    Reply # 10274410 on 10211344

    Arne wrote:

    PS to David. We don't design dinghies because we have to  -  we do it because it is fun, and because we may learn something in the process. I, at least have still a lot to learn  -  I've learned...

    I would prefer to design a dinghy because a 'client' has approached me with a specific list of requirements and told me that there is no existing design that satisfies them. But yes, first we have to learn how to design dinghies.


       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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