Open little sailboats, suited for daysailing or camping - with or without a JR

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  • 06 Sep 2021 19:38
    Reply # 10984183 on 10758504
    Anonymous wrote:

    Here's something very different from the Norwegian Fjords. 

    I guess everyone is familiar with Roger Barnes and his youtube series.

    Nope. It was a great watch though.

    If these videos don't inspire camper/cruising and shallow, muddy estuaries, I don't know what will.

    Yes and no. For me camping means a family of four adult size people, so a 16ft dingy might work... well no, not with my family. For me these are day sail dingies only. Our camping trip with a 22foot craft with cabin was already a stretch.

    When I saw the title of the thread, I of course first thought of my own situation and so was surprised at the small craft being considered. I think the first message might have defined what camping was being thought of. This video did that perfectly.

    Yes I could see myself camping from a dingy if I was single... for my family we would need a small fleet :)

  • 03 Sep 2021 21:54
    Reply # 10979493 on 10979069
    Howard wrote:

    Everybody seems to be focused on monohulls.......  One design I really like is Richard Woods Strike 16 (and other lenghts) trimaran which may use beach cat hulls for the outriggers.   The side decks offer great seating and lots of room for campiing / sleeping with a boom tent.   An optional cuddy offers some minimal protection which could be enhanced with fabric covering.  The flat bottom makes a nice flat floor, and there is a lot of stowage for and aft.  It's a boat that's going to stay right side up, and be more stable when camped at anchor.......... if you choose to camp at anchor.  The amas (outriggers) fold up to trailer.  There are several 18 footers for sale at the moment.   Plywood construction, simple and rugged.   12' of beam makes for a very stable boat. There is no reason I can see why it couldn't be fitted with a junk rig.   The way this is constructed it could be a fairly fast inexpensive build.

    Yes indeed, small multihulls can offer a lot as cruising boats. We are very happy with our Eco 6 design from Bernd Kohler. It was relatively quick, easy, and inexpensive to build. One reason I chose a multihull is that I did not then need to bother with the expense and complication of a keel and ballast. But for a 6 meter boat there is a tremendous amount of space. The book 'Travels with Miss Cindy' highlights just what a small 5 meter catamaran is capable of. My only disappointment with our boat is that the junk rig did not work out, but I do find myself toying with the idea of some kind of a junk mainsail, so who knows what the rig may end up as.

    Bernd Kohler has a number of small catamarans designed as a bi-plane rig with a mast in each hull. Any of these could be adapted for a junk bi-plane rig. The only real challenge with a junk rig on a small multihull is that these boats are very weight sensitive, so care needs to be taken to not add too much rig weight. 

  • 03 Sep 2021 18:32
    Reply # 10979069 on 10747848

    Everybody seems to be focused on monohulls.......  One design I really like is Richard Woods Strike 16 (and other lenghts) trimaran which may use beach cat hulls for the outriggers.   The side decks offer great seating and lots of room for campiing / sleeping with a boom tent.   An optional cuddy offers some minimal protection which could be enhanced with fabric covering.  The flat bottom makes a nice flat floor, and there is a lot of stowage for and aft.  It's a boat that's going to stay right side up, and be more stable when camped at anchor.......... if you choose to camp at anchor.  The amas (outriggers) fold up to trailer.  There are several 18 footers for sale at the moment.   Plywood construction, simple and rugged.   12' of beam makes for a very stable boat. There is no reason I can see why it couldn't be fitted with a junk rig.   The way this is constructed it could be a fairly fast inexpensive build.

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  • 03 Sep 2021 13:58
    Reply # 10978515 on 10747848

    I've got a couple of dinghies with junk rig - one 12' and a 14' Wanderer.

    I'm not a particularly experienced sailor so I find the junk rig vital. I sail with small children plus adults who may be mobility impaired so I'm generally the only person moving around to keep the balance. Being able to reef instantly is a huge help in keeping everyone out of the water.

    The 12' boat has a very light sail which means it is as easy to reef and unreef as it is to sheet in or out. This makes for stress free sailing.

    The yard and battens on the Wanderer are probably too heavy which makes getting the sail up and down harder. This is one project for this winter - I injured my hand pulling the sail up over the summer.

    I've never had a problem letting the sheets go - I use a fiddle block at the stern which helps to let the line run freely. But the main strategy - assuming I get a few seconds notice - is drop a panel or two.

    I've seen people say that junk rig is unnecessary in a dinghy. That isn't my experience, but I guess my sailing - where I can't rely on anyone to be in the right place - isn't typical.

    Where junk rig also makes a difference is sailing on and off jetties or moorings - it is trivially easy - and we get complementary comments on (a) doing it at all (b) how stylish we look.

  • 22 Jul 2021 01:03
    Reply # 10766720 on 10747848

    Hi,

    this is a fascinating topic. I enjoyed sailing + Camping trips with an Enterprise dinghy when I was younger and think it gave the highest yield if you divide enjoyment by cost. 

    Chesapeake Light craft offer an interesting boat with their nesting expedition dinghy. If I was younger, poorer and had fewer friends, I would probably build one. 

    In passing, I note that Roger Barnes had to be rescued at one stage. The Chesapeake craft probably would have allowed the helmsman to recover from a capsize without assistance.

    Regards to all,

    John


  • 21 Jul 2021 15:29
    Reply # 10765541 on 10747848

    I'm with Arne on this.... the open sailing dinghy is fine for summer in France and Spain, California, the South Eastern US, etc, but sail camping in a small boat calls for some sort of shelter / cuddy, etc.   It can get very cold and wet.  You will notice a number of the sailing dinghies in Roger Barnes videos have some sort of rudimentary cabin.  For me, the real outdoors season is short and begins after school starts when the hordes of vacationers return to whence they came.    This year in particular, the US highways are absolutely filled to capacity with vacationers.  I drove a stretch of local interstate the other day, and estimated local license plates at 1 out of 8.  I prefer to get out and do things when I have the country more to myself.... weekdays after the main season.  September and October are by far the nicest season here, but can get cold.  I'm not a glutton for punishment... like my comfort..... or more accurately dislike unnecessary discomfort.


          Here is a link to a bunch of snap shots from the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival with lots of interesting craft including a junk rigged schooner dory.   Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival


    http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2000/JunkDory-1.jpg

    http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2000/Caledonia-2.jpg

  • 18 Jul 2021 10:02
    Reply # 10759018 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks, Graeme  for the link  -  that was a lovely video  -  so much fine filming and then editing afterwards.

    I see four big differences between the conditions shown here, and those on SW Norway:

    • 1.      Temperatures in the air and in the water
    • 2.      Only about 0.5m tide here, versus a number of metres in France.
    • 3.      No big, shallow estuaries here. The waters are generally deep, but some areas are strewn with skerries.
    • 4.      The wind gusts behind the mountains here would not invite to making fast the sheet, the way Roger Barnes did.

    Those people on the video surely were good at making use of the conditions. Since getting a little wet is no big deal there, they could vade around with their boat behind them. And then there is the terror of the tide  -  like being the slave of an alarm clock. That didn’t appear to put them off at all.

    If you look at videos of open boat cruising in Norway, you will find much more dressed-up crews. Staying dry is quite essential. Going for a swim is quite normal, but then it is back into dry clothes (and using wool underwear). The boats are often light enough to be pulled ashore at night. Next morning we don’t have to wake up with the boats afloat  -  or find there is 200m to the sea...
    Anyway, this is not for comfort junkies like me...

    The dimensions of Roger’s boat are actually quite close to those of my proposed Buddy design. His boat’s open layout may give better use of the space, but on the open fjords here, with the fetches varying between a couple of cables to 5, 10 or 15 NM, I would prefer a half-decked design to help keeping the stores and myself dry.

    I was out for a spin in Ingeborg on Friday. It started with a light breeze, but soon the wind picked up and became a brisk F5 with plenty of short, steep chop, so we reefed and reefed and reefed again. Even with only four of the seven panels up, Ingeborg ‘flew’ at 6.5knots, which is around the limit for her 20’ waterline. I surely was glad I was not in a light, open, unballasted boat then...

    Arne

    Last modified: 18 Jul 2021 10:10 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Jul 2021 00:14
    Reply # 10758504 on 10747848

    Here's something very different from the Norwegian Fjords. 

    I guess everyone is familiar with Roger Barnes and his youtube series.


    If these videos don't inspire camper/cruising and shallow, muddy estuaries, I don't know what will.

    There's also a dimension (the lovely little villages up these creeks) which we rarely see in New Zealand either.

    We have the mud though. Tip of the month: first thing, before going ashore, is: fill all your spare buckets with water and line them up in the cockpit ready for when you return. You'll be pleased you did.

    Last modified: 18 Jul 2021 00:25 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Jul 2021 11:17
    Reply # 10757619 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Buddy is meant to be a lightly ballasted dinghy for half-sheltered waters  -  a gentleman’s day-boat  -  if that term still exists. Making a 180° capsize is not an option. A full capsize will ruin the day unless one has donned a wet-suit or dry-suit (Stavanger is at 59° N. latitude).

    Buddy would have to be tested and prove that it has a dependable positive righting moment at 90°.

    One thing I learned from Broremann, was the usefulness of having a defined fore deck, side decks and aft deck, and then a squarish cockpit in the middle. This let me quickly fit a cockpit cover after each sail, and let me return to a dry boat next time. Later models of the Oslojolle actually came with self-bailing, but these were no good for cruising. Any access to stores was of the key-hole type, and sitting in the cockpit was like sitting in a bathtub. Definitely a wet-suit boat.

    The idea with Buddy is to both have buoyancy and dry storage under the foredeck and aft deck. There will be access through 50-60cm wide circular deck hatches. These need not be of the submarine-tight type: With the boat on its side, these hatches will still be above the water. The wet storage will be under the cockpit seats (hinged), and these will have room for the Broremann-style cockpit cover, tent, fish-rods etc.

    Arne


    Last modified: 21 Jul 2021 20:21 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 16 Jul 2021 12:37
    Reply # 10755656 on 10747848

    Thanks David, I think I might give the combined buoyancy and storage idea a try.

    Last modified: 16 Jul 2021 12:38 | Anonymous member
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