The "Sib-Lim" Challenge

  • 11 Nov 2014 09:55
    Reply # 3147359 on 3144241

    Hi Annie just to widen the design base.

    Anyone up for a design challenge?

  • 10 Nov 2014 09:25
    Reply # 3146748 on 3144241
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I’ve been thinking along similar lines as David does above, and I find it very hard to design a boat that fits within Annie’s specs. Shallow draught and offshore weatherlyness is not that easy to combine.

    One spec. that I have added myself is that the boat must be easy to build and to fit the interior into. I therefore focus on a single chine (plywood) boat with flat bottom.

    Within the 24”/61cm draught limit, I think it is possible to fit a stub ballast keel, either one central one or twin stubs to stand upright on. It could be smarter to use one stub as this would give better access to one bottom side (at the time) for scrubbing.

    One specification I would most certainly break is the 26’/8m LOA limit. I would rather focus on the displacement of 3000kg. With some overhangs the LOA would be better at 8.5  -  9m. Spreading the 3 tons over a bit longer waterline (around 7m) can be done with straighter and less complicated hull lines. A 9m boat at 3 tons will be faster than an 8m boat with the same sail area or engine power, and it will be easier to build.

    Then there is the request for a quiet-at-anchor bow, quite important on a floating home. This could well be the showstopper for the sampan type I have in mind. Therefore, I’d better shut up. I should rather build a big (5.5  -  6m / 250  -  300kg) scow/sampan type daysailer for myself first, before suggesting the type to others.

    Arne.

    PS: Annie, just for the record, is the 3000kg displacement the dry or loaded weight?

     

  • 10 Nov 2014 02:03
    Reply # 3146594 on 3144241

    While I would love to draw for Annie a sweet little flat-bottomed traditional Chinese junk, I feel that it would be very difficult to clean the bottom when on the beach. In that respect, I've got on well with Tystie's hull form - a sort of curved 'V' below the chines, with a strong central keel that takes the pounding as she settles down in less than ideal conditions, after which she gently and obligingly rolls onto one side or the other so that I can scrub. When I was in northern waters, I relied on the Copperbot, but found it to be inadequate for tropical waters. Of course, my pivoted bilgeboards won't act as legs, but the daggerboard-style bilgeboards fitted to Malliemac can do just that, and they take up less room in the accommodation. Unlike a centreboard, they don't clog with mud. 

    Tystie has internal ballast, and a hull depth of about 2ft 9in, so a draught of 2ft should be achievable on a length of 26ft. However, I don't know whether sufficient stability can be obtained with internal ballast at this hull size, so it might be a good plan to incorporate some external ballast in the form of, say, a length of old railway track on the bottom of the keel, for its weight and strength.

    I've also found Tystie's hull form to be sea-kindly, with no pounding and an easy and safe motion in heavy weather. I propose to see whether I can scale it down to 26ft, make it look more "Chinese", and raise the topsides for more internal volume. The construction would be double-diagonal wood on the bottom, with sheet plywood topsides and deck.

    Last modified: 10 Nov 2014 02:09 | Anonymous member
  • 09 Nov 2014 20:17
    Reply # 3146388 on 3144241
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Annie, the cockpit will only be as big as you build it  -  there is no law against playing a bit jazz on a design...

    Arne

     

  • 09 Nov 2014 19:51
    Reply # 3146366 on 3145360
    Oscar Fröberg wrote:

    Cool, nice to see one with a junk rig! It was a NIS 23 that sailed crossed the Bass Strait. PDF of the journey with pictures here.

    Pretty amazing, Oscar.  Frankly, my nerves aren't up to surfing at 17 knots!  I shall see if these guys do a 26 ft version - it might tick a lot of boxes and give me some more ideas.

    Later: just checked.  Alas, like so many smaller Yankee boats, it is 50% cockpit, even though she is very pretty.

    Last modified: 09 Nov 2014 19:56 | Anonymous member
  • 09 Nov 2014 19:47
    Reply # 3146359 on 3145254
    Mark Thomasson wrote:

    I was going to say that a catamaran may fit most of our criteria.  It would be half the displacement, much less sail area, no leaning over, no rolling at anchor, masses of space.  I looked at a Heavenly Twins, 26', recently, comes with sitting / dining room, kitchen, wc / shower room, 2 double bedrooms, conservatory (ie cockpit tent) etc. Many happy live-on-boards. One has solo - circumnavigated.  What is there not to like... but then you said she must be pretty,  which is not so easy in a small cat. 

    On centre boards, my dad had a Kelt 9m with a centre board,  really liked it as it could be sailed down-wind, board raised, broach free.  Until he realised anti-fouling the board without a crane lift was not possible (I wont mention the weed killer down the board case option!!)

    Mark, I have done my time in catamarans.  One drawback is that one with reasonable accommodation will take a lot more building than a simple monohull.  They are also more awkward to rig as a junk.  I like the fact that a wooden one is essentially unsinkable and love their shoal draught.  I don't like the fact that the galley (or kitchen as you call it) tends to be in the hull while the saloon is separate - not good for socialising.  They are also difficult to heat, and even in the 'Winterless North' I like to be able to heat my boat.  The Heavenly Twins is cute, the Hirondelle pretty: the former simply does not sail to windward; the latter has very limited accommodation.  I doubt I could buy either in NZ, but don't want GRP anyway, if I can avoid it.

    I am open to the idea of a cleverly-designed centreboard that doesn't impinge on the accommodation too much.  But they certainly have their drawbacks, including the slot getting jammed up with mud.

  • 09 Nov 2014 19:40
    Reply # 3146355 on 3145360
    Graham Cox wrote:

    I met a Norwalk Island Sharpie 29 (NIS 29) recently, Pelican, with a Sunbird Junk Rig.  It sailed rings around Arion, despite having a very small rig.  One has crossed Bass Strait and I think they are very seaworthy coastal cruisers with 12'' draft with the board up and self-righting, and pretty in their own sharpie way, though I am not sure I'd cross ocean in one, though someone probably will one day. I have put a couple of photos of the boat in the photo-gallery.


    Nice looking boat, Graham, although a bit cluttered around the stern (!).  But 29ft is bigger than I'm looking for although I'll put it away in my list of Interesting Designs.  BTW he looks like he ties the reef in!
    Last modified: 09 Nov 2014 19:41 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Nov 2014 15:35
    Reply # 3145360 on 3145251
    Graham Cox wrote:

    I met a Norwalk Island Sharpie 29 (NIS 29) recently, Pelican, with a Sunbird Junk Rig.  It sailed rings around Arion, despite having a very small rig.  One has crossed Bass Strait and I think they are very seaworthy coastal cruisers with 12'' draft with the board up and self-righting, and pretty in their own sharpie way, though I am not sure I'd cross ocean in one, though someone probably will one day. I have put a couple of photos of the boat in the photo-gallery.  Sorry but I am too tired tonight to add a link.


    Cool, nice to see one with a junk rig! It was a NIS 23 that sailed crossed the Bass Strait. PDF of the journey with pictures here.

    Last modified: 08 Nov 2014 15:35 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Nov 2014 11:28
    Reply # 3145254 on 3144241

    I was going to say that a catamaran may fit most of our criteria.  It would be half the displacement, much less sail area, no leaning over, no rolling at anchor, masses of space.  I looked at a Heavenly Twins, 26', recently, comes with sitting / dining room, kitchen, wc / shower room, 2 double bedrooms, conservatory (ie cockpit tent) etc. Many happy live-on-boards. One has solo - circumnavigated.  What is there not to like... but then you said she must be pretty,  which is not so easy in a small cat. 

    On centre boards, my dad had a Kelt 9m with a centre board,  really liked it as it could be sailed down-wind, board raised, broach free.  Until he realised anti-fouling the board without a crane lift was not possible (I wont mention the weed killer down the board case option!!)

  • 08 Nov 2014 11:06
    Reply # 3145251 on 3144241

    I met a Norwalk Island Sharpie 29 (NIS 29) recently, Pelican, with a Sunbird Junk Rig.  It sailed rings around Arion, despite having a very small rig.  One has crossed Bass Strait and I think they are very seaworthy coastal cruisers with 12'' draft with the board up and self-righting, and pretty in their own sharpie way, though I am not sure I'd cross ocean in one, though someone probably will one day. I have put a couple of photos of the boat in the photo-gallery.  Sorry but I am too tired tonight to add a link.

    Last modified: 08 Nov 2014 11:20 | Anonymous member
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