The "Sib-Lim" Challenge

  • 17 Jul 2015 22:20
    Reply # 3439333 on 3437801
    Iain Grigor wrote:

    Okay, what about the Tilikum 32' centreboard barge, from Tad Roberts Yacht Design?  Twin centreboards, draught 1'8" boards up, junk yawl, circa 33% ballast ratio, sa/dislacement 17 to 1.  From the profile drawing, this strikes me as a very sexy and versatile boat.  Perhaps she could be scaled down a bit, for Annie's needs?


    I think the round bilge hull form would be a lot more complex to build than what Annie and possibly myself, want to get involved in. The design offered up by David Webb is in a way a scaled down version of the Tillicum 32. There have been a number of stock designs offered up as possible solutions but really none of them offer exactly what Annie is looking for in terms of capable and rugged 8m live aboard yacht suited to a junk rig, shoal draft, and relatively quick and easy to build. That is why the design offered by David Tyler which is a bespoke design has all the elements that Annie is looking for and so far seems to best suit her needs. What is more the boat has been designed by someone who understands exactly what Annie wants, and someone who has the necessary experience and expertise to come up with such a design.

    There is one possible exception to the above which I have found as being suited to what I am looking for, see the link below. The plans for this boat are not yet available and it is possibly a meter too short, but this is a chined hull, shallower draft and suited to a cat rig or alternatively could be fitted with a junk rig, and would probably offer the performance edge I am looking for.

    http://hensevalyd-english.jimdo.com/monohulls/catboat-696/

    Last modified: 18 Jul 2015 00:01 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Jul 2015 16:02
    Reply # 3437801 on 3144241

    Okay, what about the Tilikum 32' centreboard barge, from Tad Roberts Yacht Design?  Twin centreboards, draught 1'8" boards up, junk yawl, circa 33% ballast ratio, sa/dislacement 17 to 1.  From the profile drawing, this strikes me as a very sexy and versatile boat.  Perhaps she could be scaled down a bit, for Annie's needs?

  • 12 Jul 2015 03:10
    Reply # 3430698 on 3407057


    Hampus Mattsson wrote:

    There is one new Work In Progress picture here, WIP 9. Rudders and skegs are a NACA 0015 profile. I will probably make them NACA 0010 or 0012 at the top of the skegs going to NACA 0015 at the bottom. Right now the do look quite massive.

    This is the non swinging rudder version.

    They do look a tad massive, indeed!  But moe of a concern is the complexity of the arrangement.  I couldn't call the design Sib-Lim-Kiss, but that was implied.  The idea of rudders ending in a shaft inside the transom, plus a ball joint connection between them all seems rather complicated to me.  And fitting the trim tabs might be problematical.  I think it's very interesting, the way in which solving one problem causes another.  One begins to have even more respect for custom designers!


    Looking again at your hull, Hampus - how do you plan to protect the hull when it takes the ground?  I'm not sure that this aspect has been discussed.  I was talking to someone with a wood/epoxy centreboarder and he was shocked at the idea that I expected that a boat I owned would occasionally bounce a bit when refloating.  His boat certainly wasn't up to that sort of abuse!
    Last modified: 12 Jul 2015 03:11 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Jul 2015 02:26
    Reply # 3430693 on 3396804
    Iain Grigor wrote:

    What about Swallow Boats' Bay Cruiser 26 as the basis of a custom junk-rigged Sib-Lim boat?

    I have to confess that I don't like the looks of this boat - obviously my idea of traditional is somewhat different from the builders'! 

    It has a drop keel, which is not what I'm looking for, and water ballast will take up precious storage space. The sort of cook that I am requires for my galley to be permanent, not something that slides away, and there are side decks, which I want nothing to do with.  The engine will end up on the transom, so that there's a good chance of cavitation in a chop.  Of course, one would have to start simply with plans: the cost of the commercially-built fibreglass hull and decks would probably be more than my budget! 

    As I said - changing an extant design doesn't seem as satisfactory as starting from scratch to produce a design that ticks as many of my boxes as possible.

  • 12 Jul 2015 01:43
    Reply # 3430685 on 3388205
    Iain Grigor wrote:

    What about the David Thomas Red Fox Vision as a SibLim boat?

    Not really for me, I'm afraid.  The original Vision was the right length, but the ones that I can see have inboard engines, lift up rudders, a vee berth rather than a double, a tiny galley and quite a few other things that I don't really like.  The whole idea of this Challenge is to start from scratch rather than adapt something that isn't right, possibly losing the original's virtues in the process.
  • 12 Jul 2015 01:38
    Reply # 3430684 on 3385318
    Robert Biegler wrote: Chris White, in his book "The Cruising Multihull" describes a daggerboard with a case slanted about 45 degrees, such that the board slides down and forward or up and back.  It has low aspect ratio, with the slot being about as long as the board protrudes from the hull.  Then hitting something pushes the board up as well as back.  The cases will take up more space than a hinged board with the same area in the water, but you avoid having a moving part in an inaccessible place.
    I suspect that I will be pretty cautious moving around in very shallow water, so assuming the board and case are robust, am not too concerned about running aground at speed.  A drawback I can see with the arrangement that you outline, on such a small boat, is that the daggerboard cases will intrude too much into the accommodation.  In any boat I build, the moving part will have to be accessible both from above and below.
  • 12 Jul 2015 01:33
    Reply # 3430683 on 3384275
    Richard Brooksby wrote:

    Annie, your requirements are very similar to mine so this thread is of great interest, not that I'm planning to move on from Tammy Norie so early in her development.

    One question: why do you want her to be so heavy?

    Sorry I haven't been responding to this thread for a while - life, as they say, has got in the way.

    Richard, I'm talking about a floating home, here, not a weekend sailer or a three-month expedition boat.  My worldly possessions may not be many, but I'd like to hang on to what I have.  In addition, the sailing ground of my choice is lacking in 'facilities', so I need to have plenty of water, fuel (for cooking and my motor) and food on board, to say nothing of my home-brew beer barrel and the couple of dozen or so maturing bottles.  If a friend comes sailing (and please don't bring too much gear) I want the boat unaffected by that extra weight, too.

    That being so, I reckoned that 3 tons (loaded displacement) would be about right on 26ft LOA.
  • 28 Jun 2015 00:01
    Reply # 3407057 on 3144241
    Deleted user

    There is one new Work In Progress picture here, WIP 9. Rudders and skegs are a NACA 0015 profile. I will probably make them NACA 0010 or 0012 at the top of the skegs going to NACA 0015 at the bottom. Right now the do look quite massive.

    This is the non swinging rudder version.


    Last modified: 28 Jun 2015 00:02 | Deleted user
  • 25 Jun 2015 21:13
    Reply # 3404305 on 3403623
    Alan Boswell wrote:
    David Pullinger wrote:
    Iain Grigor wrote:

    What about Swallow Boats' Bay Cruiser 26 as the basis of a custom junk-rigged

    Sib-Lim boat?

    I asked Swallow Boats about putting a junk rig on their Bay Cruiser 26 at the London Boat Show.  They were very reluctant to consider it, but then the owner was present in the conversation, so maybe they were being tactful. I still think it would look good and be a nice little boat (with a few modifications to the racing back end and internally). 

    I expect you already know that Robin Blain has a junk rig (designed by me) on his Swallow Bay Cruiser 20. He just bought the boat without the Bermudan rig, and did the conversion himself, although I think he got someone else to do the sticky fibreglass bits. Swallow don't have a problem if you go that route, they just don't want to do the conversion themselves.
    Thanks Alan, yes indeed - that is actually what surprised me about their response at the time.  However I can see it from their point of view of getting sales - they wouldn't want to be seen as niche in the junk rig sense maybe.  If I do that, I'll go the Robin route... Not sure it has enough living space for Annie. 
  • 25 Jun 2015 11:59
    Reply # 3403623 on 3403065
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David Pullinger wrote:
    Iain Grigor wrote:

    What about Swallow Boats' Bay Cruiser 26 as the basis of a custom junk-rigged

    Sib-Lim boat?

    I asked Swallow Boats about putting a junk rig on their Bay Cruiser 26 at the London Boat Show.  They were very reluctant to consider it, but then the owner was present in the conversation, so maybe they were being tactful. I still think it would look good and be a nice little boat (with a few modifications to the racing back end and internally). 

    I expect you already know that Robin Blain has a junk rig (designed by me) on his Swallow Bay Cruiser 20. He just bought the boat without the Bermudan rig, and did the conversion himself, although I think he got someone else to do the sticky fibreglass bits. Swallow don't have a problem if you go that route, they just don't want to do the conversion themselves.
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