Westerly Pageant conversion!

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  • 23 May 2020 14:23
    Reply # 8988328 on 8987104

    I've just had a look at https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/
    pageant-23-westerly

    It looks to me as though the mast for JR would have to go through the forehatch aperture and into the space between the V berths. That's often the case - see the current Sadler 25 thread (she's actually 24ft on deck and about the same displacement). That would make it difficult to get into the heads with the hinged door as drawn, but a curtain would solve that. 

    otherwise, I can't see anything against a conversion. I'd want more than the quoted 22 m2 sail area, probably around 26 m2, to get the sail area/displacement ratio up to 17, and to get that much onto a short-ended boat needs reasonably high AR, which would also help with decreasing rudder loading. Biassed as I am (me? perish the thought!) I'd put on a scaled-up version of Weaverbird's original JR sail with battens 3.7m long, for good performance combined with easy handling.

  • 23 May 2020 14:18
    Reply # 8988320 on 8987104
    Deleted user

    I hear what you're saying!

    But the money is not the key point Mark.

    It's all the work for nothing - if it sails like a dog afterward ! 

    Cheers...

    Last modified: 23 May 2020 14:19 | Deleted user
  • 23 May 2020 13:50
    Reply # 8988301 on 8987104

    Paul,

    Old yachts have a very low resale value, so not much to lose....go for it.

    Arne type rig I guess best option.

  • 23 May 2020 13:39
    Reply # 8988283 on 8987104
    Deleted user

    Hi David

    Thanks v much for your thoughts on this.

    I realise the boat is far from the ideal candidate, but I'm hoping to gain enough feedback here to help me decide if I push ahead with the boat I have or change for a more appropriate boat.

    You touched on some points that I'd considered; but as yet not resolved.

    I had thought to change the rudder to outboard; to get the rudder post further back and allow me cockpit space to install a backup outboard well (with a faired blanking plug normally installed)

    The engine is an 11hp Vetus of unknown age, but only 200+ hours on the rpm/odometer.

    The odometer is a very professional looking original installation and I've no reason to doubt the running hours. (probably tempting fate with this comment ;-)

    But If it gives any serious trouble, I'd immediately throw an OB in the well and keep on trucking. Fix the main engine at a later date. Vacations are to enjoy, not work more on the boat. This is hope over experience, but I'm an optimist ;-)

    In time, I'd like to change the interior into a singlehander +1 crew maximum.

    Moving the mast back would seriously affect the lay-out I have planned.

    But the weight up front still worries me. I've planned to foam fill the area in front of the forward mast position (with a partial collision bulkhead) and foam fill the rear part of the quarter berths - there are no cockpit seat lockers, just a rear locker behind the rudder post. I plan to use foam for positive buoyancy, but until I get an all-up weight, the jury is still out on if it's even possible.

    I know a lot of the mods I plan will diminish resale value - filling in the rear of the quarter berths and making them unusable as such will no doubt be considered foolish; as I can no longer list it as a 23' boat with 6 berths ;-)

    Cheers...

    JP


  • 22 May 2020 22:55
    Reply # 8987461 on 8987104

    Hi Paul, the Pageant looks as if it could be a nice little cruising boat. An Arnie type cambered junk sail similar to his IF boat would probably suit your boat. I am sure Arnie will chime in with a suggested sail plan and mast position, which I think may just be able to squeeze into the fore deck, if you use a fairly low aspect ratio sail. An Aerojunk or split junk rig will probably place the mast in the hatch on top of the cabin and would compromise the accommodation too much. The problem with the single sail so far forward and with a small balance area is that it will need a big rudder to handle things when sailing off the wind. The rudder on the Pageant looks a bit small, but it should be fairly easy to install a transom hung rudder with some balance area into the gap to the skeg, and still use the skeg to support the bottom pintle.

    The Pageant's less than optimal windward ability can be improved by adding end plates to the bilge keels. These can be done in plywood and fiberglass or as 12 mm plates bolted to the bottom of the existing keels. I am not sure of the construction of the keels, are they cast iron or fabricated steel with lead inside? Just make sure that the keel bolts are in good condition as Westerley's were a bit prone to keel bolt failure.

    All the best with the project,

    David.

  • 22 May 2020 19:18
    Message # 8987104
    Deleted user

    Hello JRA

    This my first post; after a year or so of reading and re-reading everything on the site.

    My plan:

    A junk rigged retirement boat - I'm a recent retiree,in good shape for a 65yo.

    But I can't expect this good luck/health to continue forever.

    So thinking of the future: a rig that requires less physical effort is the prime motivator.

    I have a (new to me) Westerly Pageant that's in better than average condition.

    It's probably not the first boat most would consider for a conversion. However,the headroom and ability to take the ground is something I'd like to keep, without the hassle of using legs.

    Yes, she's a little tubby and reputed to not like going to windward, but I'm a little tubby and don't like going to windward - so I can't fault her on that ;-)

    Cruising plans:

    Summertime cruising of the UK, France and Spain.

    I'll leave her somewhere in the winters; and come back to work for a few months in the UK or France.

    ---

    This is a good place to stop a first post, and see if anyone is highly pro/con a small Westerly as a conversion project. I got the Pageant under very reasonable terms and can get out again with no losses. But she's kind of growing on me ;-)

    My biggest concern is that I'd need a forward set mast directly in front of the step down from the coachroof or embedded in the leading face of the coachroof (prefer going thru the deck)

    Any thoughts or guidance appreciated...

    Thanks...JP


    Last modified: 23 May 2020 10:53 | Deleted user
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