New junk rig on Otterbelly + knots for battens

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  • 08 Oct 2013 00:01
    Reply # 1407249 on 1343514
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Karlis

    If you look up the write-ups "A white sail for Edmond Dantes" part 1 and 2 , found under the "Letters" section in my JRA folder, here, you will see how we made the sail and tied the battens on at the leech. I copied the method when rigging Frøken Sørensen this summer and it works well.

    Good luck!

    Arne

    PS: Look at part 2, p.6

    Last modified: 08 Oct 2013 00:04 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 07 Oct 2013 19:46
    Reply # 1406950 on 1343514
    I'm giving another go at the wooden battens, but this time they are clear so they won't be breaking on knots, and 2-part laminated.
     
    In PJR they recommend that the leech end batten pockets be closed the the batten doesn't project, but this prevents inserting (or removing) the batten from either end of the sail. I contructed my batten pockets according to 
    CPJR chapter 5 page 10(26), and I realize now looking back at it that the picture shows the luff, not the leech. The webbing loop for the batten lacing seems to guarantee the batten projects beyond the leech. Arne, are your leech ends constructed the same? Do you have a close up photo of your recent leech batten ends? 

    If you do a revision of CPJR chapter 5, I think it would be worthwhile illustrating those leech batten ends as well.  
  • 04 Oct 2013 12:30
    Reply # 1404676 on 1343514
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Friday

    Hi Karlis.

    It is good to read about your sailing adventure. You seem to have been climbing the learning curve fast.

    Now to your questions:

    First, the four junk-rigged  boats I have had have behaved slightly differently. It seems that quite small differences in sail plans, placement of the halyard sling-point, the aspect ratio, sheeting system and type of lazyjacks can make quite some differences to handling.

     

     

    Twist:

    The excessive twist when reefing can have several reasons. First, there is the type of sheeting. The sheeting used on Johanna is of a strong anti-twist type. I notice that the sheet of your model sail has less anti-twist in it. On Malena’s sail, the two top panels were a bit too big so this also gave a lot of twist with the sail reefed. Then I fitted what is now called the Johanna sheeting (see JR For Beginners). With 2 -3 reefs in the sail I sometimes tamed the twist by manually hauling out the lowest sheet to let the boom swing out, and then I locked the sheet with a Vice-Grip. In Johanna’s and Frøken Sørensen’s sail I need not do that, for two reasons: The anti-twist sheeting and the reduced size of the unsheeted top panels. Another factor plays a role when the sail has been reefed to four panels or below: The lee lazyjack starts to support the yard and upper battens and thus limits the twist. This is one reason why I have changed the lazyjacks from the Hasler-McLeod style to  a topping-lifts-plus-sail-catchers type. Finally, the low aspect ratio sail of Johanna reefs better if one lets the sail (sheet) fly for a minute while adjusting the sail area. This lets one set up the Yard hauling parrel and throat hauling parrel properly before filling the sail with wind again. On my last boats, Broremann and Frøken Sørensen, this seems to be less critical, probably because the sails are of higher AR and because the masts are tall enough to let me attach the halyard a bit aft of the middle of the yard.

     

     

    Sheetlets catching the battens:

    • ·         Batten no 2 may be on the short side.
    • ·         On Johanna I solved it by adding batten extensions of rubber hose. When rigging Johanna’s sister sail onto Edmond Dantes, last year, the battens were tied flush with the leech so there is nothing to catch, very effective.
    • ·         On Frøken Sørensen (and Broremann) the leech is dead vertical or even leans a bit aft.  This combined with flush batten ends and a long batten no. 2 (on FS) lets me gybe as much as I like without ever catching the sheets.

     

     

    Battens:

    I notice that users of wooden battens keeps breaking them. I don’t think wood alone, knot-free or not, is suited for battens. The problem is that they are so stiff and fairly heavy so the sudden stop they suffer at the end of a half-long gybe will overstress them. The much lighter aluminium, which is also more flexible, will stand better up to gybes. If wood is the only alternative, I would use the lightest possible wood and then glass the finished battens with S-glass (or Kevlar/carbon) and hope for the best…

    I hope some of this makes sense…

    Cheers, Arne

    Last modified: 04 Oct 2013 12:34 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 04 Oct 2013 07:46
    Reply # 1404608 on 1343514
    I finally returned from my shakedown cruise last week, and had some fabulous sailing back from Cortes. While I was up there I managed to spot a few unique junks: a small sloop with bright yellow trim and a simple rig called Sensimilla; a three-masted junk with a houseboat-like deckhouse; and a 37' Benford with a proper wood-burning pizza oven aboard. Fortunately I was there at the end of September and the weather was cool enough to fire up the oven. Grant's pizza was delicious.

    I only had a 2-day window of Northwest winds to use in weeks worth expected SE, so I had to make those days count. My friend Dan's ketch left the day before I did during some variable winds, while I took the day to crack a rib while accidentally adjusting my engine mount (or was it the other way around?), and sample Grant's junk-rigged pizza and homebrew sake. When I left the next morning it was like standing under a garden hose of rain, but the wind was right and I was sailing for the sunshine ahead, and it was fine sailing indeed except for some occasional remnant SE swells. I don't know where Dan had gone with his ketch while I was snacking on the Benford, but I sighted him up ahead around sunset, and I do say I was gaining on him as it got dark. 

    Maybe I should have gone in while I still had some evening light, but I was pushing my wind and trying to catch Dan, so now it was dark and I was trying to find a tiny spit to drop an anchor behind. I tried to burn the image of the chart into my eyes before the light was gone, between the spit and the ferry terminal was my little anchorage, and the terminal was well lit. When I turned in for the terminal light, I thought I was past the spit, but too late I heard and saw the waves on the spit in the dark; too late I put the tiller down; and instantly there I was aground being blown onto Shingle Spit. 

    If you'll recall earlier in this cruise I broke a few battens trying to get out of Comox on a bad day, and extra 16' poles are a good thing to have, even if they are missing a few feet on the end. I was indeed thinking myself a clever gondolier as a grabbed a batten and poled myself off. If I wasn't so cold and tired from steering in the rain all day I'd have felt worse about my silly conning error. As it was I was just happy to find the anchorage was even more calm than I had hoped, and that my grounding had been so quick and painless.

    I poked my head out the next morning to see that Dan's ketch was anchored just on the other side of the ferry landing. I had assumed, being so far ahead, he would make for Tribune, distant another 4 miles or so. Yet here he was, and I had a good chance on him now. Surely though, Dan with his Wharram-esque crew would make a leisurely morning of it, and I would have time for a quick trip ashore to pay my respects, claim the island and check out the site of my grounding. The shingle and shell beach confirmed it was a harmless grounding the night before, but as I walked the beach I saw Dan pulling his anchor and away, and I knew he'd have an hour on me by the time I myself was sailing.

    I needn't have worried. There was lots of wind and it was getting stronger, and this fat little junk rigged boat had the advantage, I suspected, despite his 7' of extra waterline.  By the time I could see the colour of his light orange genoa in my binoculars, it was the only sail he had up. Maybe he was taking it easy. I still had 5 panels up for the chase, and the boat was still easy enough to manage.  I passed him around noon, surfing down waves and rolling a fair bit, and I finally took in another panel to ease the steering.

    I could barely see Dan astern as I approached Horswell channel in the afternoon. I had cracked another batten as the wind picked up, so I came down to two panels and was still surfing along. What a pain the old rig would have been in a situation like this; I couldn't imagine sailing something else now. When I finally grabbed my mooring and got the sail tied down, I noticed I had somehow broken the boom-batten as well, making 4 out of 6 if anyone is counting. Leftover wood cuts indeed. The mast is the same stuff: construction grade douglas fir, knots and all, but it seemed the mast is glued up solid with 6 staves, and I never detected a crack, flick or a bend in it the whole time. The new battens will be clear grain though, and maybe laminated as well.

    My question (finally), probably for Arne since it's mostly his sailplan. If I'm running with the sheet full out and I've reefed one or two panels down, the bundle doesn't really bundle. The sheetlets seem to pull back on the bundle so the sail leech twists and takes a J-shape with the lower 1 or 2 reefed panels holding out horizontally, so reefed allright and not really drawing, but not bundled nicely either. I'm wondering what the cause is, are my lazyjacks not adjusted right, is my sheeting not far enough aft for the sail, or something else? 

    I'm also having some trouble with sheetlets catching on battens when I gybe, I think that's due a combination of the sheet blocks not being very far aft of the sail with this rig, the battens extending just a little aft past the sail, and the sheetlet's bowline knots on the leech stick out enough to catch the higher sheetlets as they come past. Looking at the pictures of Froken Sorensen, or MingMing2, it doesn't look like there's any opportunity at the leech for something like that to happen. I'd love to have a closer look at some more sheetlet points.

    Oh, and all my lines are braided polyester. Slippery and hard to splice, it was what was available here when I was rigging. I haven't had much chafe yet on the parrels.
    Last modified: 04 Oct 2013 07:48 | Anonymous member
  • 06 Sep 2013 04:21
    Reply # 1382876 on 1382202
    Lesley Verbrugge wrote:
    Hows the chafe on your B Parrels? we had it hard offshore and chafed through virtually all of them happily not all at the same time, and many of the replacements too. Now all are slotted through cheap water hose which cured the problem and makes them slide nicely up the mast too.


    I've never had a problem with chafe on the batten parrels with one exception (in a moment).  On Badger we used 8mm Marlowbraid and, if my memory serves, were still using those we'd fitted in 1983 when Badger sailed off in 2000

    On Fantail I started off with polyester braid, but the sun got to some of them (not others - maybe a faulty reel?).  I decided to experiment with webbing and bought some cheap 25mm stuff and tied it to the battens.  This made the sail a lot easier to hoist because the parrels didn't wrap around themselves like the rope ones do.  The sun got to these, too, and although I now have good-quality webbing to replace them, for the moment I'm back to 6mm line, because it just hasn't been calm enough during daylight hours to tie on the new webbing.

    I have a running luff hauling parrel on my sail: the first time I've had one.  This chafes the second batten parrel down in an annoying way (also the batten pocket) and I'm hoping the webbing will tolerate it rather better than did the rope.
  • 05 Sep 2013 11:16
    Reply # 1382202 on 1343514
    Deleted user
    Well done Karlis!

    Re Batten Parrels. Very similar to David's system. Clove hitch aft, a three strand ring/grommet (seized to the batten with 3mm cord) through which the end of the batten is tied with round turn and 2 half hitches. We couldn't get stainless rings in the Philippines, so I made rings from .75" 3 strand polyester, that we had aboard. These were more durable when their ends were seized with cord before they were seized to the battens. Cheap, and cheerful too!

    Hows the chafe on your B Parrels? we had it hard offshore and chafed through virtually all of them happily not all at the same time, and many of the replacements too. Now all are slotted through cheap water hose which cured the problem and makes them slide nicely up the mast too.

    hey, re junk hunting, all the best junkies do it! no apology necessary!!  Have you posted about your amazing 'virtual rally' idea yet, I may have missed it whilst on the road in Europe?


  • 22 Aug 2013 11:08
    Reply # 1371703 on 1343514
    Shoemakers splice...so that's what it's called. I used it on my Arne style topping lifts. I didn't know it had a name, it just seemed like a good way to do it.
  • 21 Aug 2013 23:05
    Reply # 1371382 on 1343514
    I fasten my batten parrels with a clove hitch at the after end.  I put a figure-of-eight knot in the end, first and pull it up snug; it can't slip then.  I put some rather fancy machine screws in the battens - they need an Allen key to secure them and the deep head that results from this is fine for stopping the hitch from sliding forward.  At the forward end of the battens, I have stainless steel rings seized to the battens (through the lashing holes) and tie the parrels to those with a round turn and two half hitches, which is easy to adjust or retie.  As Mark said, tucking the bitter end through the lay of three-strand makes for good security.   I wish three-strand polyester was more readily available here in NZ: splices are wonderfully neat and secure.  (I've never had much success with splices in braided rope.)
  • 21 Aug 2013 13:32
    Reply # 1370957 on 1343514
    If you are a cheap-skate like me, and use that blue polythene rope, you will know it loves to come undone. Just knot then tuck the ends under (shoemaker’s splice)and it will stay fast. It is very loosely laid, so easy to do. Or if there is no load invloved, you can make a simple splice without unlaying the rope.
    Last modified: 21 Aug 2013 13:33 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Aug 2013 09:13
    Reply # 1370858 on 1343514
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Wednesday

    Karlis,

    It sounds as if you are climbing the learning curve fast!

    If your sheetlets are made from 3-strand rope, then the easiest way to secure a knot is to use a shoemaker’s splice: You just "splice" the whole end of the line under a cordel, as shown here. On that photo I have tied and shoemaker-spliced on hoops (black) onto the topping lifts (white). The sail catchers run through these hoops and thus complete the lazyjacks, shown here. Even if you tie with ordinary double half-hitches they will not fail if you secure the ends with that shoemaker’s splice. If you use braided line, I suggest you use the scaffold knot which David Tyler introduced to us on some other place here. I use it a lot as it is secure and takes up very little space.

    Good luck

    Arne

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