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Seablossom's diesel troubles

  • 22 Jan 2013 02:45
    Quote
    Reply # 1185405 on 1185051
    Deleted user
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

                                                                      Stavanger, Monday

    May I ask what the temperatures are in your boat these days? If it is below the freezing point, then many diesels will struggle unless they have a glow-plug. Even below +5°C some may need preheating.

    Another trick used on the one-lung Sabb boat-engines is to squirt 6 full squirts of engine oil onto the piston top (there is a special opening for it). The oil both improves the seal along the piston rings and, also, the volume of that oil increases the compression ratio and thus the heat.

    Starter fluid tends to dissolve the oil film on the cylinder wall and may actually reduce the compression.

    Arne

    PS: Another cold-start trick without the glow plug is to remove the air-filter and preheat the in-going air with a little torch (I haven’t tried this, only hear about it).

    Cold, cold, cold.  Today's high was about -7 C.  Yesterday was a little warmer, but not much.  Still below 0.  Probably not that cold for Norway, but darn cold for Missouri.
    I hadn't thought about the ether washing the oil off the cylinder walls, but I should have.  I'm afraid that I've not got the head gasket sealed properly.  I can hardly bear the thought of taking the head back off the #!*@@*#^! thing again.  I'd made up my mind to buy the new engine, but I've got my mast horizontal above the cabin top resting on the Samson post in front and hoisted up on a biped aft, and I'd have to get it out of the way before I could pull the old engine out and put a new one in.
    The crane guy gets $150.00 US per hour, timed from his driveway to his driveway.  I'd be looking at at least one hour, more likely two or even three, to pull the old engine out and put the new one in.  Enough to add a bunch to the total cost of the project.
    If it was warm enough to epoxy I'd cut the deck out of the cockpit to allow access to the top of the engine and epoxy in a lip to accept the deck back down onto, but I couldn't do that in this weather and I don't want to expose the innards of the boat to the elements.  Of course, that might be just the trick to break the back of this year-long drought we're in.  :-(
    I guess I could cut it out and put the lip in with screws and RTV silicone pending spring.  If I do that, I could pull the engine out through the opening... 
    Aw, h3ll - I'm tired of diesels.
  • 21 Jan 2013 20:44
    Quote
    Reply # 1185123 on 1167011
    Anonymous member

    Jeff,

    The day we stop doing silly things despite better knowledge, is the day life gets extremely dull and boring. Keep it up.

    Ketil
  • 21 Jan 2013 19:56
    Quote
    Reply # 1185051 on 1167011
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                      Stavanger, Monday

    May I ask what the temperatures are in your boat these days? If it is below the freezing point, then many diesels will struggle unless they have a glow-plug. Even below +5°C some may need preheating.

    Another trick used on the one-lung Sabb boat-engines is to squirt 6 full squirts of engine oil onto the piston top (there is a special opening for it). The oil both improves the seal along the piston rings and, also, the volume of that oil increases the compression ratio and thus the heat.

    Starter fluid tends to dissolve the oil film on the cylinder wall and may actually reduce the compression.

    Arne

    PS: Another cold-start trick without the glow plug is to remove the air-filter and preheat the in-going air with a little torch (I haven’t tried this, only hear about it).
  • 21 Jan 2013 19:31
    Quote
    Reply # 1185042 on 1184865
    Deleted user
    Ketil Greve wrote:

    Hi Jeff,

    Starter fluid contains a lot of ether, and ether was used in narcoses in the 50ties. It left me with claustrophobia when I had fever, a very nasty feeling I can assure you. (Maybe even worse in a boat). If there is no sign of life, even with starting fluid, there must be little or no compression (to generat heat). In my Bukh, I had to grind the walves and replace the pistonrings to get the compression up to a reasonable level. I also overhauled and adjusted the injector to be sure the engine had the right amount of diesel. The biggest problem with a diesel engine is to stop it running, so check that the decompression lever is in the right (running) position. If you can turn the engine with a handcrank, the compression is too weak. Errrr.... Before I held this lecture, I should have asked about your familiarity with engines.....

    Ketil

    Thanks, Ketil.
    Actually I do know most of these things.  I can't turn it over by hand, and the starter motor makes an obvious "compression stage" sound when turning it over, but it might still need rings.  I replaced the valves, had them lapped in by a professional machine shop.  Got a new injector, too.
    Part of my trouble is that it's in a horrible, nearly inaccessible spot for work.  Maybe I didn't get the top of the block scraped entirely smooth and the new head gasket didn't seat well.  If It needs piston rings there is no chance in the world that I can do that with the engine in place.  If I have to take it out of the "engine room" and pull it out of the cabin altogether I think I'd just as soon have another engine on hand so I don't have to hire the guy with the crane twice.  I don't think I have any means to pull it unaided where it is; the boat is sitting on a trailer in my yard with nothing above it to hang a hoist from.  It's about three meters up to the gunwales, maybe three and a half or four to clear the cabin top, and the hoist would have to be hung from, oh, maybe five, five and a half meters minimum above ground level.  So if I've got to hire the guy with the crane to come do the shuffle I'd like to be able to hire him once, old engine out, new engine in, and away we go.  Fifteen hundred bucks USD.
    Here it is.
    Yeah, I also knew about starting fluid / ether.  I had a horrendous headache after the project yesterday.  Knowing that what I'm about to do is stupid doesn't seem to prevent me from doing it.  <sigh>
  • 21 Jan 2013 16:55
    Quote
    Reply # 1184865 on 1167011
    Anonymous member

    Hi Jeff,

    Starter fluid contains a lot of ether, and ether was used in narcoses in the 50ties. It left me with claustrophobia when I had fever, a very nasty feeling I can assure you. (Maybe even worse in a boat). If there is no sign of life, even with starting fluid, there must be little or no compression (to generat heat). In my Bukh, I had to grind the walves and replace the pistonrings to get the compression up to a reasonable level. I also overhauled and adjusted the injector to be sure the engine had the right amount of diesel. The biggest problem with a diesel engine is to stop it running, so check that the decompression lever is in the right (running) position. If you can turn the engine with a handcrank, the compression is too weak. Errrr.... Before I held this lecture, I should have asked about your familiarity with engines.....

    Ketil
  • 21 Jan 2013 02:28
    Quote
    Reply # 1184464 on 1184458
    Anonymous member
    Jeff McFadden wrote:
    Meanwhile, I really want to do something else with my life than work on this accursed engine.  It's too cold to do epoxy work, but I can make my sail.
    grrr.
    Does sound like there's a case to be made for doing a side-step, and finding something more constructive, clean and enjoyable to do. Sailmaking is constructive, clean and enjoyable. 
  • 21 Jan 2013 02:15
    Quote
    Reply # 1184458 on 1184104
    Deleted user
    Ketil Greve wrote:

    Hi Jeff,

    When I put the old Bukh diesel together, I was thinking: As long as the piston moves, compression builds and diesel is added at the right time and the right amount, the thing will start and run. It did, no drama. Still working, but I came across a spare engine/ saildrive I am rebuilding at the time. If you have a backup ready to be installed, you will never need it. I use to comfort myself with: "It is a machine. There is no devil buried inside that want to get out to make your life miserable!"

    Good luck.

    Ketil

    Wrong.  There most certainly is.
    It didn't start.  Not even with starter fluid.  I almost stopped with the starter fluid - it's not fun stuff to be in an enclosed area with.
    I sent an email to the guy in India with the similar engine, removed from a lifeboat, to see if he still  has it.  If he does I'm going to buy it.  I don't suppose I really need to; if I took the confounded existing engine out and rebuilt it on a bench I'm confident that I could get it to run, and of course I'll need to take it out anyway to put in the replacement.  After I get it out I may well rebuild it on the bench.  Keep it, or maybe sell it if I can find a buyer.  Meanwhile, I really want to do something else with my life than work on this accursed engine.  It's too cold to do epoxy work, but I can make my sail.
    grrr.
  • 20 Jan 2013 12:41
    Quote
    Reply # 1184104 on 1167011
    Anonymous member

    Hi Jeff,

    When I put the old Bukh diesel together, I was thinking: As long as the piston moves, compression builds and diesel is added at the right time and the right amount, the thing will start and run. It did, no drama. Still working, but I came across a spare engine/ saildrive I am rebuilding at the time. If you have a backup ready to be installed, you will never need it. I use to comfort myself with: "It is a machine. There is no devil buried inside that want to get out to make your life miserable!"

    Good luck.

    Ketil
  • 20 Jan 2013 12:06
    Quote
    Reply # 1184098 on 1167011
    Anonymous member
    Jeff, As they say in the theatre:  "Break a leg!"  jds
    Last modified: 20 Jan 2013 12:07 | Anonymous member
  • 20 Jan 2013 02:33
    Quote
    Reply # 1183901 on 1167011
    Deleted user
    As of today I officially ran out of parts to reinstall on Seablossom's Yanmar diesel.  Gloria helped me go through the process of adjusting the governor, which I hope I did right.
    I wasn't able to try to start it as during the long down time the battery had died a final, horrible death by freezing.  I went into town and bought a battery, some odds and ends that I thought would be useful, a test cable with alligator clips, and a push button switch so I can attempt to start it from within the cabin.
    I'm almost afraid to try it.  By the time I got home it was dark, so I got a day of reprieve.
    Now I have to climb up the ladder to the deck carrying the battery, then climb down the companionway ladder carrying the battery, move the ladder for the umpteen bazillionth time and put the battery in place.  Climb back up, climb back down, climb back up carrying a half-a-tank of diesel fuel, because I was too lazy to carry a full tank and only filled it half full.  Then climb up, climb down, get a jug of water, climb up, climb down, and hook up the remaining bits - water line, fuel line - bleed the fuel lines... <puff, puff> 
    Oh my... it's been so long.  I'm nervous.
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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