Offset Rigs

  • 30 Nov 2010 23:14
    Reply # 472041 on 470838
    I also had a look at the offset rig, and the first thing that I noticed is that it is, in fact, a standing lug.  There is no 'gaff'!  And a lugsail is not a Chinese sail.

    The second thought I had was that it all looks a bit pricey.

    The internal halliard necessitates a winch for hauling up the sail (as I rediscovered last weekend), but could probably be installed in a wooden mast.  I fear it would weaken an alloy one. The sleeve seems like a good idea, but in practice they often make for a lot of drag when hauling the sail up.  It will be interesting to see.

    I agree with Arne that the idea of a damn great yard - sorry, gaff - flapping around in a gale is not something that would inspire me with enthusiasm. 

    And if you can't reef from the cockpit/pramhood, you are losing a lot.

    We've all showed off manouevring our junk rigs in like manner.  A great little boat, but it probably costs considerably more than my 26 footer and can do far less. 

    I also agree with Slieve's comments.  So few commercial builders have had the courage to try fitting JR that it is still considered a sort of Flat Earth Society idea.  Even Mr Hoyt is obviously having similar problems.  Most of my neighbours here in Nelson, think I'm deluded.  'Have you ever sailed in a junk rig?' I ask them. 'No', they reply.  'Well I have, so I think I probably have some idea of what I'm doing.'  They continue to look at me like I'm a nut. 

    As long as JR stays in the hands of amateurs, it will have a low profile, because, like most things in our wonderful free-market economy, if you can't sell ads for it, no magazine is going to push the idea.  The days
    of JD Sleightholme, Rudder magazine and so on, are long gone.

    Has Mr Hoyt actually sailed against any junk-rigged boat - flat sailed or otherwise?  His comments about being 'more modern' are a fine indicator of another problem in selling JR to the general public.  It doesn't look cool.

    Arne, David, Slieve and others are doing their best to show people how easy, comfortable, safe, efficient and fun junk rig can be.  The simple truth is that we are ahead of our time.  When people have to think twice about looking cool and maybe even occasionally consider their carbon footprint, the manifold virtues of junk rig will become more apparent.

    In the meantime, as our USAnian friends would say: ENJOY!


    Oh - and yes - it might be worth moving this thread over.

  • 30 Nov 2010 17:25
    Reply # 471755 on 470838
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Tuesday

    I guess the main selling factor of the Hoyt Offset Rig (HOR) over the JR is its visual tidiness.

    The HOR’s speed to windward may or may not be better than that of the JR (.. the flag on the test-boat on that video indicates beam reaching back and forth...).

    The furling process of the HOR, needing someone to dash to the fore-deck to haul the sail down, is way behind all the junk rigs I have seen in this respect.

    As said, I bet the HOR sells better than the JR because it looks so sleek, but luckily I am  not a salesman but a sailorman.


    Last modified: 30 Nov 2010 17:25 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Nov 2010 10:52
    Reply # 471523 on 470838

    Hi Steve

    Yes the Hoyt Offset Rig is very interesting and there are many well made points in his description. Personally, I have a lot of respect for Garry in his ability to think outside the box and push his ideas into production. The sailing world need more people like him.

    His offset rig has been around for some time, yet it doesn't seem to have caught on, probably because it has a number of potential weaknesses. There are a couple of high stress points, particularly around the off set struts, which, if they fail would leave the boat rigless, so I believe the rig is not fail safe. Where it may be great fun for local sailing I would not like to take it offshore.

    If you were to take similar videos of Arne's Johanna or my Poppy then over 80% of the commentary would still apply, and the other 20% would probably favour the junk rig. One problem with the junk rig is that we are not getting the right publicity and exposure. We do not have the proper commercial background and support. Over a year ago I took David Harding who test sails boats for Practical Boat Owner out in Poppy, but they just haven't bothered to print anything about it in the magazine. Unfortunately few 'professionals' are prepared to look outside the 'box'.

    Where I will criticise Garry Hoyt is in the answer to the last question of his FAQs which compares his rig with the junk rig. He would appear only to have experience of old flat rigs. I suspect that if he were to compare his rig with either Arne's or my Split Rig he might reverse his opinion completely. I would love to sail my rig against his on identical hulls in a full range of weather conditions. I believe that for all round sailing and durability/ maintainability, my rig could have the edge.



    PS. Would this thread not be better placed in the General Discussion Forum for members and non-members to read?

    Last modified: 30 Nov 2010 10:52 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Nov 2010 15:50
    Reply # 470914 on 470838
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Monday


    I have studied the Hoyt Offset Rig. It is a totally different animal than the JR. I would rather call it a normal western balanced lug sail which Hoyt has improved the handling of. No doubt, if well made it would be a great day-sailer’s or week-ender’s rig.

    On the other hand I would not go offshore with it, if not for other reasons than that the yard is left "up there" in any weather. The rig has some real stress-points and demands good engineering and high quality construction. I don’t doubt that Hoyt can produce rigs that hold up, but I, being more of a DIY kind of person would shy away from that rig.

    As for the impressive manoeuvrings Hoyt demonstrates inside the harbour: I can easily do the same in my 18’ junk-rigged ‘Broremann’.

    Btw. Garry spells his name with two r’s so the link to his site should be:


  • 29 Nov 2010 14:10
    Message # 470838
    I've been viewing the Hoyt Offset Rig (HOR) on GH's website,

    It's very impressive, with a good explanation and an excellent video.

    The concept could have some benefits for JR sailors too.  His idea of mechanically fixing the luff well ahead of the mast (20%) when beating as well as when running plainly attracts undisturbed air onto the luff.  It also does away with luff-hauling parrels (well, all parrels, I think), and by offsetting the plane of the mainsail to port it does away with having a 'bad tack' when the sail presses onto the mast.  The aerodynamic shroud around the mast reduces drag, as does putting the twin halyards inside the hollow mast.

    By flying the sail in clean air the HOR does away with any soul-searching on how to induce  and control curvature in the sail (ie articulated battens versus sewn-in fullness) whilst leaving the advantage of a fully-battened rig and lazyjacks.  And the mainsheet is a sensible length because the HOR doesn't need to control each panel separately.

    Another minor advantage is that when running on port tack the rig appears to have a 'lifting' dynamic, because the foot of the sail is further forrard of the mast than on other rigs.  And perhaps the HOR would be particularly effective on twin-masted rigs, with one sail offset to port and one to starboard.

    I'm beginning to sound like a salesman ...........

    Steve Ellis

    (GH website name edited 30/11/10)
    Last modified: 29 Nov 2010 14:10 | Anonymous member
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