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Galion 22 conversion

  • 14 Apr 2021 09:54
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    Reply # 10310954 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jami,
    I have only had my hands on Warram-style hinges once, when helping a friend with re-lashing the hinge of his Tiki 21.

    The bad thing was that I found it very difficult to get the lashings taut, and then tie it off. The good thing is that the Dyneema line is immensely strong.
    If I were to use Warram hinges, I would first do some practicing on some plywood offcuts. I think I would fit a cleat about 10-15 cm from each hinge and tie off the hinge-line to this. That would let me tighten (and re-tighten) the lashing and thus ensure the hinge would be nice and tight. I bet others here have better ways of securing the line. I most definitely am not an expert on this!

    The flat iron I suggested to strengthen the skeg could still be used, but then hidden with a piece of hardwood on top of it to make the (tapered) trailing edge. Now I have produced a sketch to help myself visualising the Warram hinge (minus the line).
    Take a look. I think it is doable.

    Arne

    PS: only now did I see the recent postings below ;-) ...
    PPS: Oak should do fine as hardwood, and is most probably available in Finland.


    Last modified: 14 Apr 2021 09:59 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Apr 2021 08:40
    Quote
    Reply # 10310620 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jami, sorry for the spelling mistake.

    I have not applied glass cloth to hardwood so can not advise, maybe someone else can advise you there. My own intention was simply to seal the hardwood with epoxy resin, as I can not see the point of using glass on hardwood and intuitively it does not seem necessary or a good idea - but maybe I can learn something if someone else chimes in.

    I never thought about the difficulty regarding tropical hardwoods, conservation etc. Here we have access to Australian hardwoods such as jarra, which are extremely dense and strong. It is expensive, but only a small amount is needed. I would also consider iroko which we can get here - or any strong tough, stringy wood. I would just look around for the toughest wood locally available and which does not have environmental issues. Don't forget you are spreading the load over quite a long hinge, compared to just a pair of gudgeon/pintles. 

    Others can advise better, but I think maybe you are over-thinking the requirement.

    Last modified: 14 Apr 2021 09:04 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Apr 2021 08:25
    Quote
    Reply # 10310577 on 5070195
    Anonymous member

    Graeme,

    would you glass over the hardwood?

    As you can see in my photos (see earlier posts), I have glued a stripe of carbon mat at the front edge of the basic rudder. This will be left under the 2x600 + 1x200 gsm biaxial glass I was going to use on the rudder. 

    Sourcing hardwood is quite difficult in Finland. Not impossible, however - but I would't like to go this way unless I really have to. Environmental and human right issues concerning tropical wood is one part of the puzzle.

    PS. I'm not offended even a bit - but if you want to use my real name, it's a finnish name Jami, not an english Jamie :)

    Last modified: 14 Apr 2021 08:26 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Apr 2021 08:15
    Quote
    Reply # 10310560 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I have not used the Warram Lashings before, but hope to use that system on my scow. I had planned to run a piece of hardwood down the transom to the bottom of the skegs. I had also planned on a hardwood strip down the inside edge of the rudders, rounded to a semicircle - and extended to also form the leading edge of the balanced portions.

    Would this not be the way for Jamie too, if he decides to use a Warram lashing? I think hardwood would be a better starting point for the lashings than a metal strip, and still very strong.




    Last modified: 14 Apr 2021 08:22 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Apr 2021 07:47
    Quote
    Reply # 10310532 on 5070195
    Anonymous member

    The Wharram lashings would leave the smallest gap between the skeg and the rudder. And I still have the lack of a proper ss-welder close by...

    Anyone familiar with the lashings: why is a 3mm rebate needed? It would seem one can make the edges of the skeg and rudder much stronger with glassing without one?

    Last modified: 14 Apr 2021 07:55 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Apr 2021 19:48
    Quote
    Reply # 10308706 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Think of a number, say 3-5mm. The iron is mainly meant to take the side forces from the skeg and rudder, but it would be convenient to weld on gudgeons for hinges as well...

    Arne
  • 13 Apr 2021 19:06
    Quote
    Reply # 10308538 on 5070195
    Anonymous member

    Wow,

    how thick a steel bar? Could I use this with the Wharram lashings?

    (and thank you Arne for taking the effort of sketching)
  • 13 Apr 2021 16:42
    Quote
    Reply # 10308073 on 5070195
    Anonymous member

    Thanks, Arne, your sketch is exactly what I was visualising for the skeg, but was too lazy to draw!

    Having made that, with a flat after face, the rudder then needs a semicircular leading edge, set close to the skeg, whether there are metal fittings or lashings. Metal fittings would be recessed into that leading edge.  
  • 13 Apr 2021 15:23
    Quote
    Reply # 10307775 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jami,

    a full size, strong skeg may of course be built, but then one should take care to close the gap between the boat and the rudder, at least under water (unlike on my sketch).

    On the sketch below, I have drawn the skeg so that it also goes up along the transom. Imagine that a full-length flat iron has been bolted to its trailing edge. This could have the gudgeons welded to it. The result would be immensely strong and also help to reduce the gap in front of the rudder.

    The shown rudder is not that much bigger than the original, at 0.37 versus 0.31sqm, but the new one has also been moved quite far aft, so together this should increase the turning moment with around 50%.

    I would be tempted to fit an endplate both to the rudder and to the new skeg. One thing I noticed when fitting an endplate to Ingeborg-s skeg, last summer, was that it appeared to prevent a build-up of weather helm as Ingeborg heeled over.

    Arne
  • 13 Apr 2021 11:26
    Quote
    Reply # 10306973 on 5070195
    Anonymous member

    Thanks Arne. This plan has been an alternative (mostly the 1st one) all the time.

    However, regarding keeping the original rudder, I don't fancy the idea. Of course I would like to have a fully-functional spare ready for action if needed. But there are internal structures at the aft cockpit locker that I want to change, and keeping the original rudder and the rudder tube prevent this. Mainly it's a question of making the after lockers 100% watertight and keep the potential water from flowing into the bilge (I'm planning added security, including making the boat potentially unsinkable, Roger Taylor-style).

    Do you think that a skeg built in the way David suggests would not be strong enough?

    (Hmm, there's another thing as well: the Wharram-system doesn't make it possible to remove the rudder for random fixes. This is a con, for sure.)

    Last modified: 13 Apr 2021 11:44 | Anonymous member
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