Primaat 24 conversion

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  • 24 Aug 2022 20:59
    Reply # 12894713 on 7891576

    Hi, after a good sailing season I start thinking of the winter modifications. I'd liked to install a windvane gear, one of David Tyler plans. But the transom of my boat is small, with the outboard in the middle.

    I need to know what space is needed for the pendullum, do someone know  the maximum swinging angle of the pendullum ? Can it be a little off-center ?


  • 10 Apr 2022 07:53
    Reply # 12701864 on 7891576

    Merci pour les conseils Éric, je les mettrais en pratique à ma prochaine sortie.


  • 09 Apr 2022 10:15
    Reply # 12700981 on 12699566
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hello, I've just published a new (quite long) video of my last sail, with more wind.

    Please comment the rigging, you have lot more experience than I. I found that going to weather I lost lot of speed and made too much leeway. Perhaps I was too sheeted in ?

    Bonjour Thomas
    Bravo pour cette vidéo de balade dans le golf, cela me rappelle la semaine du Golfe avec Mingming. Je pense d’ailleurs organiser un junket pour la prochaine semaine du Golfe en mai 2023.

    Je ne suis pas le mieux placé pour commenter mais face à l’absence de réaction, je me permets.

    L’empannage, avec un gréement de jonque est un peu terrorisant lorsque l’on a une culture de gréement bermudien. Il ne faut surtout pas border l’écoute. On laisse la voile complètement débordée et l’on abat en grand jusque’à se retrouver au travers bon-plein sous la fausse panne. La voile passe rapidement mais, c’est là que c’est génial, en fin de course la voile se retrouve en drapeau avec l’écoute molle. Il suffit de reprendre sa route en abattant sur l’autre bord. Commence par essayer par petite brise pour prendre confiance.

    Pour le près, il me semble que tu pointes trop. Le guindant de la voile ne doit pas se dégonfler. Il faut considérer le guindant de la voile comme le bord d’attaque d’un génois bermudien; il n’est d’ailleurs pas inutile d’y mettre des faveurs 20cm derrière le bord d’attaque.


    Courtoisie translation :
    Congratulation for this trip around the Golfe du Morbihan. It reminds me Mingming participation to the last « semaine du Golfe du Morbihan ». I will try to organise a junket during the next Semaine du Golf scheduled for May 2023.

    I am not the best man to comment but as there are no reaction, I try to give advises.

    The gibe with a junk rig looks quite terrorizing when you have a Bermudian rig culture. The sheet should NOT be pulled in at all. The sail must remain square and you pull the tiller until you are beam wind or a bit more with the sail to the wind. The sail swung around BUT, that’s the genius part of it, on the other side the sail is feathered and depowered, the sheet is slack ! The gide is done and the boat may be put on track again. Try first in light wind to take confidence.

    Shilling windwards, the sail seems to be set properly but you are pointing too much. The luff should remain full and should not flap or full up windward.  You may consider the luff of the sail as the luff of a bermudien headsail ; it would be helpful to add some windtails about 20cm back from the luff to visualize the air flow.

  • 08 Apr 2022 10:03
    Reply # 12699600 on 7891576
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Congratulations, Thomas!
    You have every reason to be proud of that job.

    You could well keep it like that all summer. If I dare suggest any changes that would be to the sheet. I found the Pilmer sheet that you use to be quite good on my Malena. Being 3-part, it had little friction in it and in addition some anti-twist.

    However, with a reef or two in the sail, the twist in Malena’s sail rose quite a bit, just as I spot in your sail. I wanted to reduce or do away with that twist for two reasons:

    • ·         With little twist, the whole sail will set at correct angle to the wind and produce more drive with less heel.
    • ·         With little or no twist. The sail would be more tolerant to early gybing. With lots of twist, the lower part of the sail, starts a gybe before the rest (‘Chinese gybe’).

    What I came up with is something I call ‘The Johanna-style sheet’. I have used this on my last four boats, and I think this sheet type makes my sails work better. The downside is that it will take up more sheet space, so it is unlikely that you can sheet the furled bundle to the centreline. I get away with it by tying the sheet-bundle to the side-deck. As long as I can sheet the sail in for close-hauled sailing with three or two panels set, I am happy.

    Going to weather.
    A small, light boat like yours, with a fin keel, surely is a challenge to make sail to windward in a chop (just as my Malena was). First of all, I learned to reef the sail to keep the boat heeling no more than around 20°. Then the sheet was eased a bit, and I fell off a bit from the standard pointing angle. Speed has priority over pointing angle on such a boat, to avoid making excessive leeway.

    Good luck!

    Here are some notes on some upgrades I recently made to the Johanna sheet.

    Last modified: 08 Apr 2022 17:06 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 08 Apr 2022 07:21
    Reply # 12699566 on 7891576

    Hello, I've just published a new (quite long) video of my last sail, with more wind.

    Please comment the rigging, you have lot more experience than I. I found that going to weather I lost lot of speed and made too much leeway. Perhaps I was too sheeted in ?

  • 26 Jan 2022 09:27
    Reply # 12317070 on 7891576
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    A little more about the rig, which I like a lot.

    • ·         Your dividing of the sail into seven panels (unlike Jester’s sail with six panels), is in my view an improvement. The load on the cloth and battens will be lower, and the luff(s) will stand straighter. In addition, the reef steps will be smaller, but still big enough.
    • ·         The Pilmer-type 3-part sheet appears to suit the planform perfectly, giving some anti-twist.  Way too often I see junks, even small ones, with 5- or even 6-part sheets. The added friction both makes hoisting sail harder, and in light winds the sail will be less willing to swing out.
    • ·         I applaud (of course) the use of telltales  -  something that I constantly nag about.

    I wonder if you could tell a bit more about how you did to create the camber. In addition, I suggest you check the actual amount of camber, as shown on the photo below.

    Anyway, I congratulate you with a successful conversion and wish you lots of happy sailing.


    PS: Now I read through the whole thread, and got a better idea of how you did it. The planform of the sail looks more like the original Jester sailplan than Weaverbird's. That calls for more work when sewing, but the end result surely looks good.

    I would still like to see the resulting camber.

    Last modified: 26 Jan 2022 09:56 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 26 Jan 2022 00:26
    Reply # 12315079 on 7891576
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    The Weaverbird sail looks beautiful, and the restoration job is lovely. I enjoyed the video and the blog (at least the pictures). The only thing which concerns me a little is the gas bottle located in the galley.

    If it were my boat I would put the gas bottle outside, maybe in the self-draining cockpit, and have a shut-off valve mounted on the outside bulkhead, but with an extended shaft so the handle is on the inside and can be reached without having to go on deck. Alternatively, there are 12v solenoid-actuated shut-of valves available, so you can turn the gas on and off from the galley by an electrical switch - that's an easier option to install and the option I have always used, but they are a bit expensive, don't last forever - and that way you are unable to use the stove if you have a flat battery or an electrical fault.

    When Marcus took over Havoc, he didn't want a solenoid valve so we modified an ordinary shut-off valve, so the shut-off valve is on the outside, with the bottle, but the handle is on the inside, next to the galley, and as far as I know that is working satisfactorily for Marcus.

    Its good that you don't need gas pipe on your installation (though the flexible rubber gas line available these days is easy to install and make gas-tight) but regulators have been known to leak and you don't want that anywhere near a flame.

    If you are using gas, you do want to be able to close off the gas without having to go outside. But I think it is worth going to that little bit of trouble to put the bottle, regulator and the body of the shut-off valve outside the closed cabin.

    Last modified: 26 Jan 2022 01:04 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 25 Jan 2022 22:24
    Reply # 12314819 on 7891576
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    Nice sailing in the "Golfe du Morbihan" on a nice boat and fear weather !



  • 25 Jan 2022 11:50
    Reply # 12312897 on 7891576

    What a pleasing outcome! Congratulations! Thanks for sharing, including your effort in making the video. 

    Last modified: 25 Jan 2022 11:51 | Anonymous member
  • 25 Jan 2022 10:04
    Reply # 12312756 on 11408869
    Thomas wrote:

    At least first outing under sail with my Primaat Circé !

    All I was expecting from the junk rig was here : ease of hoisting, ease of reefing, ease of tacking, excellent view ahead, rig very silent. Perfect !

    And I was very lucky that my sail set up very well with few wrinkles, with minimal tweaking of the luff hauling parrel and the yard hauling parrel. The performance was excellent, hull speed with 10-15 knots of wind from astern, and tacking throught 90° upwind.

    I'm a very happy sailor !

    Thanks for the video, Thomas. It's good to see your Weaverbird-pattern sail working well.
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