Rawson 30 Pilot House Junk rig

  • 10 Dec 2016 00:17
    Reply # 4450666 on 4438217
    Deleted user

    I pulled the berth apart, and removed the insulation from under the cushions and was surprised by a storage hatch to the bilge (and anchor) I forgot about. That will be where the mast lives. Somewhere in here. I sure got lucky with that even level area to mount the step!

    Here are the measurements: About 47-48 in of burry from ballast to deck. I am not quite sure how thick the insulation and paneling are in the area.

    The center of the cuby is 61 in from the center of the bermuda mast. 

    The cubby is 19 x 19 in

    I know the center of the bermudian rig mast is exactly 25 in from the center of the hatch. 

    The 40 ft flag pole is actually 44ft overall, and I am not opposed to building a trunk attached to the keel to step the mast into to gain a bit of extra height above the partners. since the mast would be on the flat foredeck area, there is 47-48 in of burry depending on the thickness of insulation in the area.

    If I build a trunk that is anchored to the ballast , I can bolt the mast into the trunk 48 in below the partners. I would build the trunk from the ballast up to the deck. I would then have a 42 ft above the deck, or 12.8016 meters. Could this work or do I need more bury?

    I think the 25 hp engine is a perfect match for this boat. With a following sea it will push the boat at hull speed with around 1/4 - 1/2 throttle, and can maintain hull speed with an opposing current of 6 knots at around 3/4 - 5/8 throttle.  Anything less powerful I would call an auxiliary or marina engine, and would not depend on it in a strong current. 

    The engine is on a lift (I don't know who makes it) but it runs off of an electric actuator after closer inspection. It seems to do the trick, but I plan to sell it and install a manual one for reliability reasons. I could picture it getting stuck in the up position with no recourse. It also has a hydraulic steering ability to turn the engine. I have only used it once after over tightening  my mechanical lines from the pilot house to the rudder, and caused a bind. It is ok,  but you have no idea at all where the motor is pointed unless you have someone watching it telling you how to steer with it. Maybe it works better underway going forward. I think it is mostly more hassle than it is worth, and plan to lock the mount in one position, and install the hydraulic wheel to the rudder as a backup incase my mechanical lines sever again. It is one of the issues I have been fighting since I have bought the boat. I will have to redesign how the mechanical system works as is. I love the feel of the feedback, and knowing how the rudder is positioned, but is useless in heavy weather, as the stock system has too much strain on the rudder, and not enough strength in the cables. 

    The steering on my boat is super old school. The rear wheel attached to the rudder post with a gnarly huge cast bronze rack and pinion gear. I love it, it's bullet proof. The cabin house wheel has a bronze sprocket attached on the rear, a crossed piece of chain rides on the gear, and is attached to some cables.  I need to work on that part of the equation. I think I need to install larger pulleys for the route to the rudder and larger cable, aswell as a few metal oil permeated bushings where the cable runs through holes drilled in wood, and has sawn grooves into while under stress. I would love to figure out a way to use mechanical auto clutch or brake cable in housing with a fair route. I would just keep the housings well oiled, and eliminate any pulleys or rub.


     

    Last modified: 11 Dec 2016 01:39 | Deleted user
  • 09 Dec 2016 21:51
    Reply # 4450511 on 4438217
    Deleted user

    Hello everyone. I have a rawson I am going to convert this spring. After contacting mark Hibdon I have decided to use Alan Boswell's plans as mark is very happy with his low tech flat cut sails in every condition he has sailed in. Perhaps Mark will speak up as to his conversion and its performance. 

     I would be interested in how your outboard is mounted and its performance. I have a 9.9 long shaft with a starter and remote I have thought about using as the diesel inboard is leaking oil and the bilge has water in it from the new gland. The boat would be perfectly dry and have so much more storage without the diesel in the way.

  • 09 Dec 2016 13:50
    Reply # 4449573 on 4449452
    Arne Kverneland wrote:
    David Tyler wrote: ... and the available mast length is only 12.2m. We need a bury of more than 1m, so unfortunately, the AR is going to have to be reduced. It's a pity, though.

    David, there is still hope, it seems.

    Somewhere down below here, James indicated that the 40' (12.19m) was the above ground height, and that there were 4' more below ground...

    Arne


    Ah, I'd missed that. Thanks Arne. Then I go with your drawing - or perhaps a Weaverbird sail at 50 sq m, which would put the mast somewhat further aft, and makes the Chord/DWL ratio more to my liking at 0.74.
  • 09 Dec 2016 13:10
    Reply # 4449452 on 4449412
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David Tyler wrote: ... and the available mast length is only 12.2m. We need a bury of more than 1m, so unfortunately, the AR is going to have to be reduced. It's a pity, though.

    David, there is still hope, it seems.

    Somewhere down below here, James indicated that the 40' (12.19m) was the above ground height, and that there were 4' more below ground...

    Arne


  • 09 Dec 2016 12:41
    Reply # 4449412 on 4449401
    Arne Kverneland wrote:
    David Tyler wrote:

    Arne, I just tried Weaverbird's sail (AR = 2.28) scaled up to 50 sq m, and it would take a mast with LAP = 12m to fit it to Sea Star. I doubt whether a sail of AR = 2.1 is going to fit onto a 40ft mast, so hence my suggestion that James use Marie G's sailplan.


    David

    it is just that the 50sqm sailplan I suggested already had an AR of 2.10, setting on a mast with LAP=11.2m.


    ... and the available mast length is only 12.2m. We need a bury of more than 1m, so unfortunately, the AR is going to have to be reduced. It's a pity, though.
  • 09 Dec 2016 12:27
    Reply # 4449401 on 4449341
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David Tyler wrote:

    Arne, I just tried Weaverbird's sail (AR = 2.28) scaled up to 50 sq m, and it would take a mast with LAP = 12m to fit it to Sea Star. I doubt whether a sail of AR = 2.1 is going to fit onto a 40ft mast, so hence my suggestion that James use Marie G's sailplan.


    David

    it is just that the 50sqm sailplan I suggested already had an AR of 2.10, setting on a mast with LAP=11.2m.


  • 09 Dec 2016 11:45
    Reply # 4449341 on 4438217

    Arne, I just tried Weaverbird's sail (AR = 2.28) scaled up to 50 sq m, and it would take a mast with LAP = 12m to fit it to Sea Star. I doubt whether a sail of AR = 2.1 is going to fit onto a 40ft mast, so hence my suggestion that James use Marie G's sailplan.

  • 09 Dec 2016 11:27
    Reply # 4449327 on 4438217
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    James,

    I don’t know more about sailcloth than most people here, so ask around.
    I have used a cloth-weight of 6-7oz  or 220g/m
    2 on a sail of only 20m2. That worked fine except in the lightest wind. For a 50m2 plus sail, a 220g cloth will inflate well in any wind. At least it worked fine on the 48m2 sail of Edmond Dantes. I guess I would aim for that sail weight in the four top panels, at least. The lower panels can be made of just about anything. Just remember the strong boltrope around the sail.

    I would not recommend that you use Marie G’s sailplan on your boat. That sail has a wide chord of around 5.82m and that will no doubt add to the weather helm problems. I think it is quite essential to keep the battens at 5.50m (chord=5.42m). If you really feel you need more sail than 50m2, then I suggest you make accurate measurements on your boat in the mast position I drew for it, and tell me exactly how tall the mast will be above deck. This will let me pick a taller sail for you, with AR of maybe 2.15 or 2.20. I am with David Tyler here, that a narrower sail of higher AR suits this boat better.

    Batten size:
    Here I am mostly guessing, I am afraid. The heavier boat of yours asks for stronger battens than on Edmond Dantes, for instance, but on the other hand, the shorter batten length reduces loads. I suggest you look around to see what your local supplier can offer in the 50-60mm range.

    Arne

    PS:
    My designer skills have not been much improved since I drew Johanna’s sail. It is just that my switching to CAD drawing makes the sailplans look tidier...

     

     


  • 09 Dec 2016 11:16
    Reply # 4449315 on 4438217

    James, I think that since this is your first JR and you're on the learning curve, it would be as well to stick to the mainstream, and not to do anything that hasn't been done before. So I think that it would be a good plan to adopt Marie G's sailplan as it is (though it might be a tight fit on a 40ft mast, I think it will be OK). 

    Your choice of a light nylon spinnaker cloth is questionable. It has been used for JR racing sails, aiming for least weight aloft, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a heavy "cruising home" kind of a boat. My experience has been that the cloth starts to break down near the leech of the lower two panels, as a result of there being little or no tension here so that the leech is inclined to flap and flutter more than the rest of the sail. Weight matters. A heavier cloth flutters more slowly. Even with the 8 - 9oz/sq yd cloth that I would use for a 54 sq m sail (sorry, mixing imperial/metric units again!) I would put a wide doubler up the leech, for longevity. I wouldn't know what to recommend to make a light nylon sail last a long time in the cruising environment, as opposed to a racing round the cans environment. Based where you are, near Seattle, I suggest that Weathermax 80 cloth and battens of 2in x 1/16in 6061T6 al. alloy should be easy to get hold of.

    Last modified: 09 Dec 2016 11:25 | Anonymous member
  • 09 Dec 2016 00:39
    Reply # 4448125 on 4438217
    Deleted user

    Fantastic, I linked to the wrong fabric. I meant this one. Sorry about that. Do you think this should be fine or should I live with a bit of decreased performance and stout fabric around 7oz? 

    I just finished rereading Camber, the Johanna way, and see Peregrine used regular sail cloth. Do you know if they used any broad seam at all or if it was just barrel cut only?

    As far as the size, I was considering trying to go for 54 -55 sq meters, and actually just build the Marie G sail plan. The person who will be doing the cutting and sewing thinks in metric, unlike myself, and says it makes sense to her. 

    I am continuing to go through you documents, and your rigs seem to have become a lot more refined over time. I think we will be able to expect predictable results from your rig, seems to be the cheapest other then a flat sail, and has oceanic passages under its belt. The mate likes your layout the best and we get to keep the hatch. 

    We are excited to start the building process. I just found a yacht club with facilities for haul out and a crane I can use for the mast work. I might have to join for the perks... Plus it has a members only park and the facility can be rented if you are a member for cheap. Perfect place to get married. My odds of finding someone who will lend me their garage for a week or so to build a sail will also be higher around a bunch of other boat nuts :)

    What size battens would you use for a sail like this?

    Thanks for all the info!

    Last modified: 09 Dec 2016 04:42 | Deleted user
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