Thanks for the illustration Arne. The quick sketch I did had the mast in a similar position. The short upright water line  of the boat makes it a bit tricky. There is a main deck support running right through that area, and I think it is unwise for me to cut in the specific spot. I have never seen a boat with such thick and sturdy glass work, I could imagine that they over built the support like the rest of the boat. I would hate myself for trying to cut through it, I can already tell. Also, it would interfere with the chain locker hatch, and more importantly I would have to gut the whole berth and storage area to get to the bilge for instillation. The way this boat is built, I think it would be too much of a chore. I was thinking maybe I can make going through the hatch work with forward rake. The center of the current mast is 25 inches from the center of the hatch. From my rough sketch, 3% rake looked like it might work, but the sketch was rough at best.   

BTW I truly appreciate all the help.  The IF looks AMAZING Arne! Wow, a true work of art. You out did yourself on this last conversion Arne, just stunning. I hope you are enjoying her! 

I really like the idea of going for the AeroJunk, unless someone can point out some reason that would make it anymore unsafe then any other sailing rig. I think long as I build it stout like the rest of the boat, It should be ok. I think that would work best for mast position. I can leave the current trunk in place, and off set the mast to starboard a few inches, and have a clear space, out of the way to put it. This boat is put together well, so pulling main pieces apart, may mean I have to rebuild whatever gets ripped out. I would like to avoid that. I would like to avoid weakening the structure by cutting bulk heads and supports if at all possible. 

Cheers everyone! Thank you for all the great input!

Thanks for all the input! 


I like different things about all the different rigs, so it comes down to which one will allow me to place the mast where I need it.

Arne does great work, but from my quick sketches (they could be wrong) I think the mast would have to be placed further forward then the hatch. Maybe this could be countered with a forward rake.

I also really like the split rig. The only issue I see, is my sewing skills. Also, I think the AeroJunk has a lot to offer in the way of tune-ablility. Seems to me I could tweak and tune until my heart is content, with out having to build a new sail every time I want to make a slight tweak to camber. or what ever else. I would use threaded stock and bolt everything together for the extra strength. 

I started a tech thread to document the process of the conversion. I am hopping to sell my current rig to help at least cover the cost of the flag pole. 

Hi James,

I'm converting a 33' 12,000 lb boat (fin keel, sloop) to a split junk rig, 55 sq m, for blue water cruising.  I can say that there's no way I would consider going with a flat sail for it.  There's just too much to be gained with camber.

Would you be able to preserve the hatch if you used a split junk with 35 percent balance?  I didn't think I could, but it turned out possible.  Just think of how great it would be to keep the hatch AND avoid a bowsprit.  Heaven! 

EDIT:   I just saw the Rawson 30 layout - forget what I said about saving the hatch.

I don't think the jiblets are any more susceptible to losing wind in heavy seas than any other sail.   

Well, James, she is your boat and I, personally, would not regard it as mutilation, putting on a beautiful junk sail instead of a boring pointy rig.  But that is my personal opinion.  However, if Shirley can put a junk rig on a teak Vertue that has been immortalised by Eric Hiscock, I don't see why you can't put one on your boat!

I'm with Chris: I'd try to pile on sail area, if I were you, consistent with keeping the sail handling simple.  Mark seems delighted with Lady Arwen's rig.  It's a shame you can't go and see him, but you would appear to be at the opposite end of the country.  (Still a cheap flight might be available, and California probably sounds appealing at this time of the year!)  But I would certainly get in touch with him, if I were you.  Anyway  - best of luck.  I'm sure you won't regret changing the rig.

Hello!

I know I have been gone a while, but we have been spending a lot of time out on the water this past season. Life has been a whirlwind, blowing us about, but for every action there is an equal reaction, 2016 has been intense.

We managed to broker a deal for a beautiful 1960 Rawson 30 pilot house designed by William Garden. She is sloop rigged and according to the GPS we have put around 2000 nautical miles on her since June. She moves beautifully through the water, and is stout as a brick house. She weighs in over 14000 lbs, with a 5000 lbs full keel.

She is a blue water boat, and is very difficult to sail in anything less then force 3 or 4 without a drifter or a massive genny. She moves upwind nicely, and holds a groove way better then the old Columbia Mkii 26 we sold. 

As I received an amazing deal, the last time she was re-rigged was in the late 80's. I have inspected everything, and it seems fine for sailing around the sound, or even up into Canada. I do not intend to take her into the Blue, until she has been re-rigged. 

The rest of the boat is in great shape, and has been carefully maintained or restored. I think there were only 36 of these boats ever made from 1959 to 1988.  I am obsessed with junk rigs, but have gotten quite good at sailing a sloop or cutter rig. The appeal to the junk rig is it's ability to make long voyages, its simplicity, and most importantly the cost.  I truly enjoy the sailing characteristics of the boat as it is, but if we convert to junk rig we will be able to spend more money twords actually cruising. 

 Would it be sacrilege to mutilate a rare old classic? Have any folks ever seen or heard of a Rawson 30 Junk rigged? 

I don't think I really have enough room for a schooner rig, as the boat is only 30 ft. I am considering a cambered Van Loan sloop with a drifter If I go the junk rig route. I am open to Ideas and opinions, I know you folks are more intelligent then I :)  

If I just restored the rig, I would set it up as a cutter sloop and add a bowsprit. The current mast is good, but everything from the chain plates up needs replaced before a serious voyage. I have a bunch of sails, all are ok-ish, and the main is quite nice. lots of $$$$ needed to go this route, but I can use galv steel instead of bronze for turnbuckles until I have the money up for Hayn.  If I do the mechanical ends, maitnence would be easy, and the rig would be good for atleast another 30 years, with regular maintnce and replacement of just the stays. My main concern is the monthly upkeep costs of a cuttter. If we are cruising, we will be on a limited budget no doubt, and would hate to be hindered by the costs acssciated with multiple dacron sails, and rigging.

The boat lays hove to perfectly under just a reefed main. How will this be affected with a junk rig? I probably need to re-read all the junk rig books I have before getting into any sort of design mode. Our goal is to pull the boat from the water and do a full re-rig this spring, or at the latest, next August. 

Let me know your thoughts, your patience and guidance has brought me this far. It is crazy how we were not sailors a bit over a year ago, and now we have thousands of nautical miles under our belts on a variety of vessels and delivery experience. I have even sailed on a tall ship since, and now hope to complete a passage as crew someday. We took to the live aboard sailing life :) I don't think we could ever go back to being land lubbers! 

I don't know how to post pics on this forum, so let me know how to if you want to see some pics of my pride and joy, sea star. Here is the album link, hopefully it works: 

Sea Star Pics

Happy Holidays,

James

EDIT: I have been crawling the web instead of working, and found Lady Arwen, BOTM in 2015, I think Feb? Any ways, I also found the spread sheet with the sail area of 554 ft sq. 

I am thinking the guys at my yacht club can do whatever they want to there boats, this ones mine. I already re-read the Van Loan book, checked my junk notes, and deduced two possible situations.

1) 40 ft flag pole through the fore hatch, single 554 ft sq, or there about, single sail. I would put the mast at a 3 degree forward rake. I think this would work with Van Loan style, Arne style, and probably the beautiful fan tail.

This would be a straight forward conversion, and would be reversible if someone ever wanted the sloop or cutter rig back.  

My only concern is balance. Is this fear unfounded? What do ya think?

2) In an ideal world go schooner rig. I took some rough measurements and I might be able to make it work. In my area 2 30ft flag poles are $500 more then a single 40 ft, so in the long run I do not think the extra costs would be a huge deal. I am limited where to place the masts considering the boats layout. I have not done any real math yet, but eye balls say it might work. I guess the main factor is the fore mast. I would like it to come through the hatch to avoid my windless, chain lockers, and prevent a major intrusion to my berth. I don't have any practice figuring out schooner rig set up, but it can't be that much harder.

The issues are: More complex install, more cost, more line handling.

Pros: Better balance, and super beautiful. 

Fears: I am concerned that this sort of rig won't be worth all the extra conversion expense and complexity. The boat is solid and holds a track well. It will ride a groove all on its own and you don't need to tend the tiller much once the sails are set. Do schooners really balance so much better then a modern cambered sloop junk rig?

I was playing around with the JR calc, and It seems the boom length is only give or take 5ft shorter for a 227 ft sq sail vs a 554 ft sq. This leads me to believe that my fore sail would have to be smaller then the main, or I would probably have clearance issues. I am unsure if all the extra aggravation is worth it for a boat this size. If the boat were 34ft of bigger, it would not even be a question. 

If you have read all of this, Thank you. I look forward to your input. When I get to the drawings and actual planning I will start a thread under the technical forum.