S2 6.7 Junk Rig Conversion

  • 13 Jul 2021 19:46
    Reply # 10749081 on 10748065
    Mark wrote:

    Scott,

    perhaps a simple horizontal axis (non servo) vane be enough for your use?  
    Pete Hill used such on his catamarans.

    I think you are suggesting a horizontal axis vane that directly pulls on the tiller. Do you have a link to some photos or drawing of what Pete Hill used?
  • 13 Jul 2021 19:42
    Reply # 10749060 on 10746845
    Hans-Erik wrote:

    Wind Vane vs Tiller Pilot (the dilemma of sailors everywhere).

    BOTH will require adjustments while under sail.

    A wind vane will require tweaking of its vane setting (many have 'control ropes' so this can be done more remotely than at the vane gear proper) as wind direction changes.

    An electronic tiller pilot will require retrimming of the sails if expected to maintain a compass course despite a wind direction change.

    That said I would not want to be without at least one (preferably both) when out single handed.

    Makes for less frantic in and out trips to the cabin for brewing a cuppa or taking a gander at a chart/plotter.

    Offshore and outside of busy shipping lanes, backed up by an AIS transponder with a very loud alarm, and one can actually get some decent kip.

    There is a reason most of these contraptions are given names.
    They are perhaps the most valuable crew member.

    Thank you for the response. An electronic tiller pilot is tempting. They are, compared to most boat electronics, fairly inexpensive and appear to be easy to install.

    I have never used one in person but, from watching videos online, they seem to make a terrible noise. For motoring this would probably be OK since my engine is already so loud. For sailing I really want an almost silent boat so I can just listen to the water on the hull. 

    I would really like to have a hydrovane but they sell for significantly more than what I paid for my boat. I am pretty sure I will attempt to build some sort of vane gear. If I am ultimately unsuccessful then an electronic tiller pilot is plan 'B'.

  • 13 Jul 2021 17:54
    Reply # 10748811 on 6872873

    I don't know if this is of any use, but looks like the sort of thing you are after.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZtOJ0Cy_s

  • 13 Jul 2021 11:33
    Reply # 10748065 on 6872873

    Scott,

    perhaps a simple horizontal axis (non servo) vane be enough for your use?  
    Pete Hill used such on his catamarans.

  • 12 Jul 2021 21:19
    Reply # 10746845 on 6872873

    Wind Vane vs Tiller Pilot (the dilemma of sailors everywhere).

    BOTH will require adjustments while under sail.

    A wind vane will require tweaking of its vane setting (many have 'control ropes' so this can be done more remotely than at the vane gear proper) as wind direction changes.

    An electronic tiller pilot will require retrimming of the sails if expected to maintain a compass course despite a wind direction change.

    That said I would not want to be without at least one (preferably both) when out single handed.

    Makes for less frantic in and out trips to the cabin for brewing a cuppa or taking a gander at a chart/plotter.

    Offshore and outside of busy shipping lanes, backed up by an AIS transponder with a very loud alarm, and one can actually get some decent kip.

    There is a reason most of these contraptions are given names.
    They are perhaps the most valuable crew member.

    Last modified: 12 Jul 2021 21:19 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Jul 2021 20:57
    Reply # 10746815 on 6872873

    I was happy to spend about 8 hours sailing on Saturday. A rare east wind, with no rain, made sailing north on beam reach easy and comfortable. I made it to the next port and then headed home on the reciprocal tack. All wind and no waves. Good times.

    Having a tiller brake is definitely better than hand steering all the time but I think I need something more for a longer trip. There was too much variation in the wind speed for me to leave the tiller for more a minute.

    I would like to build a wind vane based on David Tyler's design.

    The boat is small and has a kick-up rudder. Does anyone have some advice for the easiest type of steering to build? A full servo-pendulum seems more complex on paper, but I can imagine fitting a trim tab that works with a kick-up rudder might actually be more difficult.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

  • 07 Jul 2021 16:12
    Reply # 10734939 on 6872873

    I finally got the weather I was hoping for several weeks ago back when I had time to sail.

    I took two videos, one on each tack.

    https://youtu.be/EGLLaMZDk1k

    https://youtu.be/nOMcg62qUzw

    This also shows my imitation of Arne's tiller brake design.

    With this wind I was able to trim the boat such that I was making a steady 4.5 knots, with the boat doing all the steering, on a heading for that anchorage about 80 miles away over the horizon. Days like this make it hard to turn the boat around and go back home.

    If anyone sees something wrong with how I have the sail rigged, please let me know.

    Arne, I have all the stuff to fit telltales onboat the boat. I plan to do that sometime soon!

  • 30 Jun 2021 21:24
    Reply # 10715193 on 10711566
    Arne wrote:

    Chapter 7, about rigging the sail

    I realise now that a few makers of these sails have run into trouble during rigging it. This was much due to the fact that I was late to write the ‘rigging Chapter’  -  no.7.
    Now I have put a PS at the end of Chapter 5, suggesting reading Chapter 7 before starting on the rigging.

    I read the 'rigging Chapter' again and noticed, or finally understood, what you wrote about the halyard attachments. I have an annoying issue with halyard twist at the moment. I rigged the halyard with a swivel block at the mast head. For some reason this seemed like the right thing to do. It was not. I have some persistent problems with halyard twist.

    I am not going up the mast and I don't really want to un-rig everything to take the mast down right now. But, in the offseason, I will be reworking the mast head to use two blocks at the mast head, in the locations you described.

    For now I am getting pretty good at pulling the halyard out of the deck hardware, untwisting it, and reeving it back through the rope clutch on the deck.

    I got the boom fendering on, eventually. There are a whole bunch of lines right around that part of the boom. I kept lacing different things into the fender accidentally. I think it turned out OK, but I did not take a photo.

    Last modified: 30 Jun 2021 21:25 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Jun 2021 21:50
    Reply # 10712001 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    You’d better look out David, or your family members will have to start locking their things away from you!

    This yoga mat stuff seems to have very useful properties, if it is the same stuff I am thinking of. It appears to be a sheet of polyurethane rubber which, in liquid form (with solvents?) makes an incredibly strong, flexible and resilient glue. I don’t know anything about the chemistry of it, but it appears to be the same stuff which is used industrially to mount big engines on, between the engine and the concrete floor. I’ve not heard of it being used for marine engines, but I did once mount a little single cylinder Volvo Penta on some lumps of the industrial stuff, and as far as I could see it worked OK.

    I once did a Hiab job on a yacht, whose owner told me he had bought (from The Warehouse) a cheap camping ground mat – same stuff as your wife’s yoga mat I think - and used it as a dry bedding for going between his chainplates and the ferrocement hull – bolted down extremely tight and the excess cut off – a quick, easy and cheap job which, on inspection a few years later, proved to have allowed no moisture to penetrate (often a problem with fc in this sort of detail). Its not cheap to buy in its industrial form, but if it’s the same stuff as used domestically it is relatively cheap and its amazing “memory” makes it potentially a material worth considering for a lot of applications besides fendering spars.

    Maybe someone who knows more about these things can enlighten us with a bit more information.

    PS

    Leather, as you used on your boom jaws, is tougher of course. Good old-fashion leather- I read somewhere that the famous Fangio once ran a big-end bearing during a long-distance rally in Argentina - drained the oil and pulled off the sump on the side of the road and replaced the bearing shells with some pieces cut from his leather belt - and completed the race. I guess that toughness, and its ability to carry stiches, makes leather so good for fendering between oars and rowlocks as has been done probably for centuries.

    Last modified: 29 Jun 2021 22:12 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 29 Jun 2021 20:28
    Reply # 10711807 on 6872873

    On the subject of fendering of the yard, boom, and battens; On the new sail on 'Footprints' we cut up my wife's yoga mat into strips and sewed that into the batten pockets, and yard and boom pockets. This seemed to work well, and yes, I did eventually replace the yoga mat.

    But I also came against this issue in a small way on the gaff jaws of my little catamaran. I tried a couple of different types of rubber glued onto the inside of the jaws to provide some cushioning and prevent damage to the paint work on the mast. I was not having much success because whatever I used I seemed to get a lot of friction when raising or lowering the sail. Then I came on some scraps of sheep skin which my daughter had been using in some craftwork. I cut up a strip of that, trimmed back the wooly bits and then glued it on top of the thin bit of rubber already in the jaw. It works really well, no friction, and no damage to the mast. So maybe worth a try for cushioning on a junk rig.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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