S2 6.7 Junk Rig Conversion

  • 14 Jul 2021 16:07
    Reply # 10750857 on 10749193
    David wrote:

    [...]

    If you are interested in a wind vane self steering just a simple horizontal axis vane direct to the tiller would probably work for a boat the size of your. In his book 'Wind-Vane Self Steering' Bill Belcher presents plans for a simple horizontal axis wind vane built fairly easily from plywood. If you are interested in building one of these I have the book and am happy to scan the plans and building instructions and email them through to you. It does require quite a large vane to generate enough power, but these simple vanes have been used successfully on many small yachts.

    David,

    Thank you for sharing the drawings. After studying them for a bit I remembered that Arne had built a wind vane, named Otto, mostly following the OGT MKII plans.

    Between the photos in Arne's write up and the drawings you provided I think I might be able to build a vane like this. I may not be terribly good at it, but I am comfortable working with plywood and epoxy. I may even be able to build this for less than the cost of a Simrad TP10.

    Near the end of his Otto summary, Arne wrote, "I would not suggest the same setup on a boat which is directionally unstable (or only just stable)."

    My boat (mostly) balances well on the wind, but on a run there is significant weather helm since the sail is almost entirely on one side on the boat. On flat water and consistent wind speed I can (mostly) correct for this by having the tiller off to one side.

    When I was out in some waves, and running down wind, the 'feel' on the tiller was changing constantly. As each wave passed under me the tiller would need more and more input to steer the boat until the wave was mostly passed at which point the tiller again became effortless to move.

    So ... is my boat directionally stable enough to hold a course using the OGT MKII attached directly to the rudder?

    Last modified: 14 Jul 2021 16:23 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Jul 2021 20:31
    Reply # 10749193 on 10749060
    Scott wrote:

    Thank you for the response. An electronic tiller pilot is tempting. They are, compared to most boat electronics, fairly inexpensive and appear to be easy to install.

    I have never used one in person but, from watching videos online, they seem to make a terrible noise. For motoring this would probably be OK since my engine is already so loud. For sailing I really want an almost silent boat so I can just listen to the water on the hull. 

    I would really like to have a hydrovane but they sell for significantly more than what I paid for my boat. I am pretty sure I will attempt to build some sort of vane gear. If I am ultimately unsuccessful then an electronic tiller pilot is plan 'B'.

    I am going through this exercise at present with my little catamaran. An electronic tiller pilot is quick and easy, and not hugely expensive. They just need sufficient battery power to keep them running for any length of time, and work best where tiller loads are light. I have used them and never found them to be noisy. For my previous yacht I bought a new Simrad tiller pilot and it was mostly hard to hear it operating. It was not silent, but then it did not make any kind of unacceptable operating sounds.

    If you are interested in a wind vane self steering just a simple horizontal axis vane direct to the tiller would probably work for a boat the size of your. In his book 'Wind-Vane Self Steering' Bill Belcher presents plans for a simple horizontal axis wind vane built fairly easily from plywood. If you are interested in building one of these I have the book and am happy to scan the plans and building instructions and email them through to you. It does require quite a large vane to generate enough power, but these simple vanes have been used successfully on many small yachts.

  • 13 Jul 2021 20:29
    Reply # 10749191 on 10749060
    Scott wrote:

    Thank you for the response. An electronic tiller pilot is tempting. They are, compared to most boat electronics, fairly inexpensive and appear to be easy to install.

    I have never used one in person but, from watching videos online, they seem to make a terrible noise. For motoring this would probably be OK since my engine is already so loud. For sailing I really want an almost silent boat so I can just listen to the water on the hull. 

    I would really like to have a hydrovane but they sell for significantly more than what I paid for my boat. I am pretty sure I will attempt to build some sort of vane gear. If I am ultimately unsuccessful then an electronic tiller pilot is plan 'B'.

    I am going through this exercise at present with my little catamaran. An electronic tiller pilot is quick and easy, and not hugely expensive. They just need sufficient battery power to keep them running for any length of time, and work best where tiller loads are light. I have used them and never found them to be noisy. For my previous yacht I bought a new Simrad tiller pilot and it was mostly hard to hear it operating. It was not silent, but then it did not make any kind of unacceptable operating sounds.

    If you are interested in a wind vane self steering just a simple horizontal axis vane direct to the tiller would probably work for a boat the size of your. In his book 'Wind-Vane Self Steering' Bill Belcher presents plans for a simple horizontal axis wind vane built fairly easily from plywood. If you are interested in building one of these I have the book and am happy to scan the plans and building instructions and email them through to you.

  • 13 Jul 2021 19:49
    Reply # 10749085 on 10748811
    Stuart wrote:

    I don't know if this is of any use, but looks like the sort of thing you are after.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZtOJ0Cy_s

    Yes, that looks like what I would like to have. The metal work looks intimidating. I don't think I have the skills to build anything that involves welding. I suspect hiring a professional welder to make parts for my windvine would make the Hydrovane pricing look very reasonable.

    Maybe some of the items shown in that video can be made from wood and epoxy.

  • 13 Jul 2021 19:46
    Reply # 10749081 on 10748065
    Mark wrote:

    Scott,

    perhaps a simple horizontal axis (non servo) vane be enough for your use?  
    Pete Hill used such on his catamarans.

    I think you are suggesting a horizontal axis vane that directly pulls on the tiller. Do you have a link to some photos or drawing of what Pete Hill used?
  • 13 Jul 2021 19:42
    Reply # 10749060 on 10746845
    Hans-Erik wrote:

    Wind Vane vs Tiller Pilot (the dilemma of sailors everywhere).

    BOTH will require adjustments while under sail.

    A wind vane will require tweaking of its vane setting (many have 'control ropes' so this can be done more remotely than at the vane gear proper) as wind direction changes.

    An electronic tiller pilot will require retrimming of the sails if expected to maintain a compass course despite a wind direction change.

    That said I would not want to be without at least one (preferably both) when out single handed.

    Makes for less frantic in and out trips to the cabin for brewing a cuppa or taking a gander at a chart/plotter.

    Offshore and outside of busy shipping lanes, backed up by an AIS transponder with a very loud alarm, and one can actually get some decent kip.

    There is a reason most of these contraptions are given names.
    They are perhaps the most valuable crew member.

    Thank you for the response. An electronic tiller pilot is tempting. They are, compared to most boat electronics, fairly inexpensive and appear to be easy to install.

    I have never used one in person but, from watching videos online, they seem to make a terrible noise. For motoring this would probably be OK since my engine is already so loud. For sailing I really want an almost silent boat so I can just listen to the water on the hull. 

    I would really like to have a hydrovane but they sell for significantly more than what I paid for my boat. I am pretty sure I will attempt to build some sort of vane gear. If I am ultimately unsuccessful then an electronic tiller pilot is plan 'B'.

  • 13 Jul 2021 17:54
    Reply # 10748811 on 6872873

    I don't know if this is of any use, but looks like the sort of thing you are after.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZtOJ0Cy_s

  • 13 Jul 2021 11:33
    Reply # 10748065 on 6872873

    Scott,

    perhaps a simple horizontal axis (non servo) vane be enough for your use?  
    Pete Hill used such on his catamarans.

  • 12 Jul 2021 21:19
    Reply # 10746845 on 6872873

    Wind Vane vs Tiller Pilot (the dilemma of sailors everywhere).

    BOTH will require adjustments while under sail.

    A wind vane will require tweaking of its vane setting (many have 'control ropes' so this can be done more remotely than at the vane gear proper) as wind direction changes.

    An electronic tiller pilot will require retrimming of the sails if expected to maintain a compass course despite a wind direction change.

    That said I would not want to be without at least one (preferably both) when out single handed.

    Makes for less frantic in and out trips to the cabin for brewing a cuppa or taking a gander at a chart/plotter.

    Offshore and outside of busy shipping lanes, backed up by an AIS transponder with a very loud alarm, and one can actually get some decent kip.

    There is a reason most of these contraptions are given names.
    They are perhaps the most valuable crew member.

    Last modified: 12 Jul 2021 21:19 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Jul 2021 20:57
    Reply # 10746815 on 6872873

    I was happy to spend about 8 hours sailing on Saturday. A rare east wind, with no rain, made sailing north on beam reach easy and comfortable. I made it to the next port and then headed home on the reciprocal tack. All wind and no waves. Good times.

    Having a tiller brake is definitely better than hand steering all the time but I think I need something more for a longer trip. There was too much variation in the wind speed for me to leave the tiller for more a minute.

    I would like to build a wind vane based on David Tyler's design.

    The boat is small and has a kick-up rudder. Does anyone have some advice for the easiest type of steering to build? A full servo-pendulum seems more complex on paper, but I can imagine fitting a trim tab that works with a kick-up rudder might actually be more difficult.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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