Gavin Dalglish wrote:

Antoine ALLAIN wrote:

Thanks all

Concerning changes (or more accurately fear of changes), it may be because althought WaterBear is mine, I don't feel like she is yet. Will come with time, I guess.

I came to categorize the changes I want:

first the ones that I definitely need for feeling secure on board : keel leakage/fixation for exemple

second the ones that I want, even if they are not crucial : eg a new rudder

third, the ones that I want but can wait : eg electricity

We'll see what I can and cannot do. Plans are to be back in the water mid may.

Antoine (WaterBear)

Antoine

Some comments and questions from me, as a previous trustee of Water Bear:

1. The keel leakage has happened before, resulting in some water in the drop keel casing (see below); it was never serious, and Scot told me that he had fixed the problem. You might want to ask him what he did. The history of the keel is that, originally, Water Bear was designed with a dagger board i.e. a drop keel, which was housed in the slim casing on the centreline to starboard of the companionway which reaches right to the coachroof. After WB's first season on the water, Paul Gartside got fed up with having to clear mud, pebbles etc out of the underwater aperture (WB was kept on a drying mooring in the tidal Malpas Creek), so he got rid of the dagger board completely and added a solid oak 'shoe' (as he described it) to the base of the keel, increasing the draft by about ten inches, if I remember correctly. What I suspect has now happened is that, because WB has been out of the water for a long period, the oak has shrunk and the join with the box keel above has opened up slightly. The subsequent 'weep' of water has found it's way up a keel bolt. Probably , as the oak swells again, the leak will stop. Since there is, in effect, a slot in the box keel below the dagger board casing right through the keel to the original base of the keel box, that's where the water became visible. However, if the water found its way up a keel bolt forward of that it would infiltrate into the ballasted section, which would potentially be much more damaging and, initially, invisible. There is another possibility which is rather more ominous, which is that in the process of transporting WB to France, lifting on and off the truck etc, that a strain has been put on the keel bolts by some lateral leverage. In which case there could be more serious consequences, such as bent keel bolts (they are quite long and thin) and a breach in the glass/epoxy sheathing along the joint where the keel box meets the hull. In either case, the only way to investigate this is to lift the boat out of the water and make a careful diagnosis, perhaps  with the help of an experienced surveyor or boatbuilder. While Water Bear is an extremely tough boat, the construction method used gains its strength from very clever design using very light materials, and the potential for serious problems exists if, at any point, there is a breach in her watertight integrity such that water can penetrate into the wooden hull. Hence my emphasis in our previous correspondence on ensuring that any bumps and scrapes on the hull are quickly and properly repaired.

2. I'm puzzled by your comment about replacing the rudder; I may have missed it, but you do not explain why. The original rudder was rebuilt and massively (and unnecessarily) strengthened by Alan Burns, who prepared the boat for Nick's Atlantic crossing. It seems very unlikely that it would be failing unless it has been damaged during the lifting/transporting process. It looked fine when I saw the boat out of the water in England shortly before you did, and I am quite certain that Scot would have addressed any problem that occurred during his ownership, his maintenance standards (and experience) were very high. If someone has suggested that you need to modify the rudder to address some perceived issue with the balance or performance of the boat, ignore them; she is the most perfectly balanced junk-rigged vessel I have ever sailed in, and I'm sure that both Nick and Scot would agree.  Any issues will be to do with the sail and trimming her correctly

3. Concerning the rig, I was amazed by your misfortune with the battens and difficulty sailing to windward, as her performance has always been exemplary and I never felt at all at risk of straining a batten. Admittedly the rig has been modified with hinged battens and a different sail and running rigging since I owned her, but when I sailed her briefly with the new rig a while back she seemed fine, and Scot never mentioned any problems. I do entirely concur with Arne and other contributors about retaining batten parrels, however, despite what Robin says. Having said that, Scot and Robin (the other Robin!) have cruised extensively in every sort of weather and are very experienced, although maybe that meant that they were able to avoid losing control of the sail in the way that has been described.

I would certainly, in your situation, not make any modifications to the boat before gaining much more sailing experience with her; if you're still having problems I would be happy to take a trip southwards later this year and see if I can help; it would be a great pleasure to sail her again!

Best wishes

Gavin

PS I fitted a basic electrical system to WB which was ripped out by Alan Burns; I can make some suggestions if you are interested!

Thanks for your advices.

Concerning the keel, I am still investigating but I think that the polyester/glass cloth around the keel started to delaminate (due probably to timber blocks swelling) and cracked. In some places, the cloth is completely separated from the wood and I can peel it off by hand. Add cracks on the cloth and water found a way into the keel, between the block, and up to some threads. Oddly, the bonding between hull and keel seems all right, at least visually. My intent is to rip off the polyester glass coat from keel up to 50mm under the keel/hull joint, dry the whole wood block, and relaminate glass epoxy, overlapping over the joint and the hull. If I find a way to do it, I will also try to replace the threads that look too rusty.

As for the rudder, you are probably right. I have not so much experience with the boat to tell. My feeling is that the rudder is really ineffective and non responsive when the boat is slow, probably due to its shape : it is basically a plank. Maybe not a critical change to make but ... I am still pondering the pros and cons. Another thing which is annoying is the fletner used for the windsteering system. There is some wobble as the mecanical transmission is not perfect, even when set to rest in line with the rudder. I have at least to fix that.

Concerning the sail, I still don't know but I sure don't like very much the hinged battens. They are a weak point to me, and, being so novice, I think they are more for confirmed junk rig sailors. After breaking the two joints in my second outing, I kinda lost confidence in the sail. A new sail, with non hinged battens seems more rationnal to me. Plus, down here, we have either lot or none at all wind, rarely in between. I don't know.

The electrical system is fine, and my work will basicaly to clean it off (there are some cables that need replacement, some that lead to nowhere) and I would like to change to leds for navlights and interior lighting.

I knew when I bought the boat that I would have to accept her as she is, and that fitting her to what I want would take years. I may well be wrong on some issue, but I have no preconceived ideas. For exemple I find the rear cockpit disposition really strange, with the hatch just under the tiller, preventing any opening when "en route". Another thing is the mooring/anchoring setup. It may work for experimented sailors, but I don't feel at all confident with it, especially as I will certainly mainly sail alone. Anyway, if I manage to fix the keel, and have a new sail (and a copper antifouling) before haul back in the water mid spring, I will be very happy. I am lucky enought to work in a shipyard, with a lot of people around me that know very well boats, wooden and composite ones, electrics, etc.

I am always glad to listen advice from far more experimented sailors, and specially one who has sailed WaterBear !

Antoine (WaterBear)

Chris Gallienne wrote:

already discussed here.

In Fact in my post i had intended it to read something like "if i am wrong a Pint at the AGM for everyone who attends", so  it's going to be a costly day. Live and learn!

Cheers 

Ash

Antoine,

I was just looking at the photos (In your Profile) of WaterBear's  sail and I, in my novice opinion, think that the Upper Luff Hauling Parrel is routed incorrectly, and is unable to haul the yard throat down and aft as required. 

There is a small block attached on the top batten at the first joint (about 1/3rd along) , I don't think the ULHP should go there, but instead round the mast and straight to the lower end of the yard.

Firstly, I suggest that in position it will fail to  haul the sail's throat down and aft and could contribute to slight lee helm you mention below.

Secondly the loads applied by the small block to the batten at the first bend could be unfair and cause damage.

Hope it helps, hope I am right! 

 "If I am wrong, as a penance, i will buy you all a pint at the Yacht Club Bar, and not only that... A REAL PINT AT THE AGM BAR in April 

Finally - I can't see any batten parrals, it looks as though the sail is held to the mast by the Upper and Lower luff parrals alone? I am not sure if this is a function of having jointed battens - to allow them to apply an aerodynamic curve to the sail or not? (It would make sense in that the batten would resist bending at joints if it was held to the mast by the aft end of a batten parrel)  

However, it also seems strange to me that when easing the  LHPs - say when off the wind, it would permit the sail to part company excessively with the mast, and there would be little control forward and aft.

"Two Pints if I am wrong twice?" You must be joking!

Ash

I must disagree with Ash about the rake of the mast.  Fantail has a mast that rakes forward at 6 degrees and the only time she has lee helm is, as I mentioned, close-hauled in very light winds.

If you do have a lee helm problem, following Arne's advice of moving the CE in the sail should sort it out.

If she only bore away (turned away from the wind) on one tack, there is a possibility that the rudder may have a twist.  When I sailed Iron Bark she had an infuriating tendency always to creep to port when you let go of the helm.  The rudder was taken off and rebuilt for entirely different reasons but, thank heavens, that bad habit was fixed at the same time.  Possibly your new rudder could do the job.  Someone more clever than I could suggest whether altering its size or shape would help reduce lee helm. 

As to making changes in the boat: she is your boat. And I'm sure she wants to sail as well as she can, too.  It's not like you are changing her character drastically - and probably her previous owners would have tried out a different sail when the old one was worn out!

Antoine,

When the boat wants to go off the wind (fall off), a Brit would say ‘she carries a lee helm’. The opposite would be to carry (a) weather helm. Something like that, I hope  -  let’s hear what les Anglaises have to say. Anyway, this lee helm may influence on the best position of the CE of your new sail.
Some questions:

·         Did she carry lee helm even in some wind, or mainly in light winds?

·         Did she carry lee helm, not only when you sailed her fully close-hauled (Max up-wind)?

If her lee helm is quite consistent, you should move the CE of your sail aft, say30 - 50cm. Remember, a cambered sail with the max camber point around 35% from the luff will have the actual centre of pressure (CP) forward of the CP of a flat sail. If you are to keep the mast where it is (why not...), you could just make the sail with wider chord to move the CE aft.

Note: If your boat only carries a lee helm in light winds and fully close-hauled, I suggest you only move the sail a little bit aft (10 – 30cm), to compensate for the cambered sail.

I can see the problem with making changes to a very fine boat. I have a bit of that problem in Ingeborg as well. Her cabin has been refurbished: All that new spotless innerliner, everywhere makes it difficult to do anything to her...

Good luck with your project.
Arne